Philo, Boaz et al

Believe in supreme deities all you want if that gets you through the night, but that god in the bible? Not exactly supreme at all.

This may well be interpreted as an attack on you - it is not. It is an attack on formal religion; dogma.

The more we learn about the natural world the more questions are raised. Neither of you make any sincere attempts to study natural science (without your bible blinkers on), no wonder you don't understand what is being discussed here.

The universe(s) is gobsmackingly amazing.

Not so the bible, it may be open to a variety of interpretations but it never ever changes or grows.

The god as described in either testament simply doesn't have the "right stuff" to create such an immense, complex and diverse universe. Your little deity is too concerned with people obeying him, believing in him and praying to him - he is, intellectually, a child.

Well put, Fractelle.

I could believe in a god. I could never believe in one that is so insecure, it needs or even wants my worship.

Actions speak louder than prayers.

Fractelle,

The last thing I want to do is to tap on this hornets nest of atheism having seen how all other Christians have been treated. However I found it quite upsetting when I read that and would expect any other Christian reading such a comment to feel likewise. I believe that some explanation needs to be provided to help the understanding of any reader who is prepared to receive it. Such a reader at least then won’t be led to misunderstand my belief system.

Christians consider God an omnipotent being who we believe to have a number of characteristics. For the present purposes love is relevant. Indeed to Christians our God essentially is the source and summit of all love. We are monotheistic and pursuant to divine revelation it both makes sense and we believe that God wants us to love only Him as a God.

Putting this together explains the phenomenon that appears to relate to your derision of God. God cannot love us as an equal and we cannot love God as an equal if God is omnipotent. However God loves us and wants us to love Him.

A young child who strongly loves their parent essentially worships and obeys their parent. Some parents are overjoyed by such strong love not due to being intellectually challenged or insecure but simply because they value the love of their child. At the same time they are humbled because, while the difference in mental ages greatly increases the likelihood that obeying them will protect their child from harm compared to the child’s own judgement, they also know they aren’t perfect and the child will gradually discover that.

God wants us to love Him but it is only possible to love an omnipotent being as an omnipotent being. Not as an equal but by worshipping Him. God is perfect and doesn’t feel humbled by our love. It is as it should be. God has more than demonstrated His love for us and by His nature wants us to reciprocate.

I hope this helps.

Boazy,

Why do you invite comments like this:

“Fractelle! Have you noticed that every-time a hard question or insightful logic comes up they all run for the bible and make less sense than they did a moment ago. But all of what you have presented, I fully agree. P\S The cartoons made me laugh very hard. Thanks!”

Even responding like this:

“Did you look closely enough at it to see what John was saying?”

That is one of two things I need to ask you about. Is it really effectual to do that? Do you think atheists consider scripture authoritative? Further what do you expect to accomplish by lashing out at other denominations? Do you consider that things like the following ingratiate you to atheists?:

“Whitty..sounds like poor Ben had an overbearing 'Brother' at his catholic boarding school :) See what happens when you build a religious structure based on falsehood? (celibacy).. it comes out in all manner of weirdness and distortion..

How about considering Jesus approach ? "I came that they might have life, and have it abundantly" Or.. "The truth will make you free, and if the truth makes you free, you will be free indeed"”

Does any of the above seem scriptural for a Christian or strategically sensible? Wouldn’t answering with scripture invite comments like the above and wouldn't lashing out at another Christian denomination be expected to undermine your credibility with atheists?

You've got your work cut out for you there, mjpb.

Turning people off Christianity is like Boazy's *job*. And he's very, very good at it.

mjpb: "The truth will make you free, and if the truth makes you free, you will be free indeed"

Truth has never been one of Boazy's strong points, at least in his posts to this forum.