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The Forum > General Discussion > Dogma versus the Universe

Dogma versus the Universe

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But mjpb, you stopped short!

NASA is not considered a fundamentalist organisation, nor are any of your other USA examples considered fundamentalist in any way. Quite secular, in fact.

"Fundamentalist USA" has given us wonderful scientific organisations such as the Creation Museum, the Discovery Institute and research discoveries like "intelligent design". Oh yes, fundamentalist USA is providing us with a veritable cornucopia of scientific research.

Incidentally, when you were talking about the human genome, did you have in mind this kind of research (not quite US but nevertheless interesting):
http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/2008/02/21/2169093.htm
Posted by Bugsy, Thursday, 20 March 2008 2:59:39 PM
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Mjpb: You misread me, I said fundamentalist USA. I mean the fundamentalists churches in America.
Posted by Vanilla, Thursday, 20 March 2008 3:02:50 PM
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In that case Vanilla (and Bugsy) I'm not sure. I presume they don't as an organisation. I assume that they don't subscribe to the theory of Darwinism (I'm relating that to the hostile question). Beyond that I don't know what there attitude toward science is. If I get a chance next week and you are still interested I'll do some googling.

Have a wonderful Easter everyone!
Posted by mjpb, Thursday, 20 March 2008 4:01:17 PM
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"I assume that they don't subscribe to the theory of Darwinism..."
Ah, yeah, that kind of thing.

I don't quite get you mjpd. Are you genuinely not aware that there's a schism between fundamentalist Christianity and the scientific community?

Interesting article about science and Christianity.
http://nobeliefs.com/comments10.htm

The article raises another question actually. If you believe religion and science are natural bedfellows, then why are so few scientists Christian? In 1998, on 7% of leading scientists in the USA had a personal belief in god. (http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/news/file002.html)
Posted by Vanilla, Thursday, 20 March 2008 4:45:36 PM
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Mjpb has claimed that Christians invented modern science. Using his logic then it may be claimed that Nazis invented quantum physics because of the great physicists who came from fascist Germany; including notorieties such as Max Planck, Werner Heisenberg, Wernher von Braun, among many others, who founded their science with the help of Nazis.

Then, of course, communism should be credited with post modern science for such luminaries as Lev Landau, who received the 1962 Nobel Prize in Physics for his development of a mathematical theory of superfluidity or Tsiolkovski who calculated that the horizontal speed required for a minimal orbit around the Earth is 8 km /second and that this could be achieved by means of a multistage rocket fueled by liquid oxygen and liquid hydrogen. They conducted their research, developed their theses under the communist regime and believed its ideology.

It is reasonable to question what Christianity brings to science when currently it is seeking to impose intelligent design and persuade its followers to reject sound scientific reasoning like evolution.

I can only dream of the science that could’ve been developed in the USA, without the interference of the Religious Right Wing that has dominated America for the past 8 years. Again, NASA and other such organisations make progress in spite of religious dogma.

Finally I submit the following definitions:

Dogma is the established belief or doctrine held by a religion, ideology or any kind of organization, thought to be authoritative and not to be disputed, doubted or diverged from.

Religion is derived from the word, religare, meaning ‘to bind’, which in turn means ‘to hold, to make prisoner, to restrain.

Whereas, science comes from the Latin "scientia," meaning knowledge.

And Mjpb continues to claim that religion and science are not only compatible but that Christianity aided scientific development?
Posted by Fractelle, Thursday, 20 March 2008 9:25:39 PM
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Religion is a set of beliefs that a person or community hold to unify and guide human behaviour that leads to a pure and happy life. And in the State its administerers identify behavioural laws that if violated result in punishments imposed by the state. That is why we call Government appointees Ministers of a portfolio, It may or may not include a divine being.

However from ancient time it identified one who lived perfectly the set behaviour and upheld pure attitudes perfectly as posessing the spirit of the divine - they represented the character of god/God.

Christianity was radical in its approach to legalism and offered forgivnes to violators to the held laws - that they could be born again and be recognised as pure before God by His imputed righteousness, on the basis of repentance of the past and being freed from it by accepting cleansing.

This radical approach released minds held captive to past failures and behaviours to the socially established laws. It gave rise to freedom of the individual to explore their own possibilities as a person. It gave rise to radical and independent thinking in a personal relationship to God and the world he created. No laws governed his spirit only the God of all reality.

Read the book of Galatians which deals with legalism and living in the spirit of God. God is creative of all reality and nothing is secretive from Him. To know God is to discover his reality
Posted by Philo, Friday, 21 March 2008 5:26:15 AM
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