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The Forum > General Discussion > Dogma versus the Universe

Dogma versus the Universe

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Fractelle, can I try and rewrite of the comment which prompted my post

"And the moral contribution from the athiest world?

JOSEPH STALIN

I rest my case."

Would that comment have been fair or would it have deserved a rebuttal pointing out that Stalin was hardly at the pinacle of athiest/agnostic moral thinking?

You quoted the words of a truly great man who was at the pinacal of so much and then held Falwell up as the christain churches contribution.

The thread might be about dogma but your post had wording that was much more specifix than that. It was an unfair comparison of the kind that we expect from the dogmatic as was your unreasonable claim that I was trying to stifle your freedom of speech.

The personal attack you launched in response looks a lot more like an attempt to limit free speech than my post.

I don't think Falwell is right at the bottom of the barrel, those who have sheltered child abusers within the church get that ranking.

I think I've spent enough time and posts on OLO opposing extremist thiests that my credentials on that front stand on their own. Extremists in any form present a risk to the kind of society I value.

R0bert
Posted by R0bert, Tuesday, 25 March 2008 8:44:43 PM
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R0bert

There are many examples of bad people who are not religious. I do not dispute this at all.

Fact: I was responding to yet another attack on the morals of atheists by Boaz.

I am free to use whatever examples I choose. Falwell is hardly the worst example BTW.

You don't have a problem with Boaz' continual denigration of atheists, fine. But I do.
Posted by Fractelle, Wednesday, 26 March 2008 8:00:51 AM
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I see what you mean, RObert.
Indeed, if anyone had seriously made the Stalin comment I think I’d have replied by saying that Stalin was an example of another dogmatist- the dogma of communism.

Anyway, I think that Boaz must’ve got Fractelle’s message by now that neither atheism nor Christianity necessarily are the path to evil or the path to good.

Still, I think there is some truth in this quote by Steven Weinberg:
“With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”
Or any non-religious dogma, for that matter.

Thank you all, especially Fractelle for this interesting discussion.
I feel it's time for me to move on.
Posted by Celivia, Wednesday, 26 March 2008 9:57:22 AM
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Like Celivia this is my final post to this thread.

Thank you to those who really thought about their contributions and made it into a lively debate. Easytimes, I loved that Youtube link.

I found this little thought when researching and want to share it with everyone:

Universe: Uni = One, Verse = Song.
Universe = One Song.
One Song, heard by all throughout the entirety of existence.
One Song. One Message to all.
I feel that message is Love.
Love is the Law.
Love knows no religion. Love knows no nationality or country border.
Love is Love.

Bill Schell 2004
Posted by Fractelle, Wednesday, 26 March 2008 1:00:59 PM
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Fractelle, you've made your final post but left a parting shot at me on the way out. No need to respond to this if you don't wish.

"Fact: I was responding to yet another attack on the morals of atheists by Boaz." - but you attacked all christians in responding to comments by one particular christain.

"I am free to use whatever examples I choose." - spot on but I'm also free to rebut whatever examples are posted if I consider then unreasonable. Freedom of speech cuts both ways.

"You don't have a problem with Boaz' continual denigration of atheists, fine." - where did you get that idea? I've responded to Boazy's (and other fundies) attacks on all sorts of people on many occasions. Take some time and look at my posting history and you will see a very long history of challenging many of Boazy's attempts to denigrate those of us who don't share his faith. I am aware that Boazy is neither the best or worst that christianity has to offer. Boazy's attempts to denigrate athiests and agnostics does not make it OK to denigrate all those who call themselves christain.

R0bert
Posted by R0bert, Wednesday, 26 March 2008 6:31:29 PM
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