Foxy

Your posts are always consistent, well reasoned and beautifully succinct. Problem is the fundy extremists of any religious persuasion are no more capable of learning from your wisdom than they are of truly looking at their beliefs objectively.

Thank you for your informative posts - I have learnt a great deal about Muslims in Australia. Keep up the excellent work.

Fractelle,
Can you be so ignorant. On many occasaions I have stated that I am not a six x 24 hour creationist. I believe in creational design with limited form of change within genetic lines. Evolution has not explained how lifeless material became mindfull genetic forms. I mix with a group of science professors in my Church and they have difficulty with the claim of atheistic evolutionists. Blind acceptance of atheistic evolution as a fact springs from school curriculum indoctrination.

Dear Leigh,

It is unfortunate that the image of Muslims today to some people is that of "Terrorism," thanks to extremists within their group.

Islam in Australia is the second largest minority religion after
Buddhism. Christianity is the majority religion. The south-north railway is named "The Ghan" after the Muslim "Afghan" cameleers who were credited with saving the lives of numerous early European explorers (and were vital for exploration).

You spoke about Australia's tolerant immigration policy? In the early twentieth century, Muslims of non-European descent experienced many difficulties in emigrating to Australia because of a government policy which limited immigration on the basis of links with Great Britain and Ireland. Known as the "White Australia Policy," this was used to maintain social homogeneity in the Commonwealth of Australia and to preserve the economic standing of the peoples already settled.

Some Muslims still managed to come to Australia. In the 1920s and 1930s, Albanian Muslims were accepted - it could be argued - because of their European heritage, which was more compatible with the "White Australia Policy." Albanian Muslims built the first mosque in Victoria in the town of Shepparton in 1960, and the first mosque in Melbourne in the year 1963.

It's interesting. There is a deep split within the Australian
Muslim community. Most Muslims in New South Wales are Arabs, whereas most Muslims in Victoria are of Turkish or Albanian ethnicity. There are also significant Pakistani and Bangladeshi Muslim communities in both cities, numbering roughly 10-12 thousand from each community in the country. Victorian Muslims tend to be generally more secular and indications show they are much more integrated than those in New South Wales.

There have been arguments between the two communities with the mainly moderate Turkish Australian community refusing to accept the more fundamentalist Taj El-Din Hilaly (an Arab born in Egypt) as Australia's mufti. Victorian Imams have never recognised Hilaly. However, as of 2007, Hilaly is no longer recognised as a mufti.
As one Muslim said, "He's an ignorant man - and we've got enough of those in the Australian Christian Community!" (smile).

"1/ When so called Christians engage in cruelty and wars of territorial expansion and slaughter.. they do so AGAINST the clearly expressed teaching and example of Christ."

Better make that
1/ When so called Christians engage in cruelty and wars of territorial expansion and slaughter.. they do so against the clearly expressed teaching and example of selected portions of the bible but in close harmony with other portions. Pick the bits that suit and claim they represent what god wants.

R0bert

R0bert
Obviously you do not realise that both Jews and Muslims follow the attitudes and behaviours of the Old Testament warriors while Christians who follow Christ adhere to his new passive teachings regarding attitudes and behaviours.

For Christians the Old Jewish nationalisn sets the scene for the relavence of Christ and his message of personal reconciliation.

Mohamet studied the teachings of both books and because his national heritage has more in common with Israel being a descentant of Abraham than Rome in the 6th century AD his attitudes followed that of his Jewish instructors more than of his Roman instructors. Though his writings contain praise of Jesus son of Mary in the Quor'an.

The Israeli - Arab tribal conflict is as old as the jealousy of the brothers Esau and Jacob.

To Quote you, "When so called Christians engage in cruelty and wars of territorial expansion and slaughter.. they do so against the clearly expressed teaching and example of selected portions of the bible but in close harmony with other portions. Pick the bits that suit and claim they represent what god wants."

Fascinating......

Foxy.. a lot of your last post was based on 'media stereotypes' rather than serious research.. did you not think of that ?

I've not said "Christans Good/Muslims bad"

I've said. "Christianity" good.. "Islam" bad.

Now.. the 'irreconcilable differences' of which you speak between Christian traditions and the couple of cults you mentioned.. are at the doctrinal level and none of them adhere to any idea of 'fighting' to promote their faith. Primarily because there is nothing in the New Testament which can be rightfully used as a basis for that.

Of course..anyone can indulge in anachronistic iso-gesis and read into the text which is not there. Hitler did.

EVANGELISM ? I think you used that term as a synonym for all the worst excesses of high profile "Prosperity gospel" TELEvangelism.. so called.. which has, in most cases not much correlation to the Biblical pattern.
Much of what you mentioned is in direct conflict with the Bible.. so.. why not actually see what it says about Christian leadership? (pastoral epistles)

INTERPRETATION. This is very easy to 'say' but difficult to use as an easy 'wayout' of saying a particular faith is bad.
Reasons.. very easy.. there are only so many ways a text can be interpreted. Context..determines how a text must be interpreted.
Then.. we add culture and idiom. There are sound principles which determine how something should be intepreted.

Example "Fight those who believe not in Allah etc" (9:29)

Some Muslims add the word "back" just after "fight" and claim that this is referring to defensive fighting.

How do we resolve the dilemna "Offensive or Defensive" ? simple.. we goto the hadith and see how Mohammad himself understood and applied it.. and his closest disciples.. and we find it means "Offensive".