The Forum > General Discussion > MUSLIMS IN AUSTRALIA.
MUSLIMS IN AUSTRALIA.
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Posted by Philo, Tuesday, 19 February 2008 6:45:09 AM
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I feel compelled to point out that Philo is a self proclaimed christian, who also believes in creationism. He has written many a post on his rejection of evolution.
Here, I have to wonder, is he saying he is in agreement with the Koran (a first) and if so why has he vilified islam on so many other threads? Christians and Muslims have more in common than not. Posted by Fractelle, Tuesday, 19 February 2008 7:18:25 AM
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Dear Antonios...
you went to great effort there to remind us that 'Christians' were guilty of all manner of historic crimes. Whenever I see such a thing, I won't aim my response to you personally, but to the information you gave. All I want to point out, as I've pointed out soooooo many times in the past, is this: 1/ When so called Christians engage in cruelty and wars of territorial expansion and slaughter.. they do so AGAINST the clearly expressed teaching and example of Christ. 2/ When Muslims do the same thing, they do so IN TOTAL HARMONY with Mohammad's teaching and example. Does this mean anything to you ? I sureeeelllllyyy hope so mate. What it means is.. please "don't" use so called Christian history of wars etc, to negatively comment about the faith itself. By all means do so for Islam.. as there is no conflict with its foundations.. but there IS a huge conflict with such things and Christ. So.. in future,sure-refer to history.. and war..and cruelty, but please don't say 'Christians' did this. What you SHOULD be saying is: "In complete enmity with and opposition to, the teaching and example of Christ Jesus, many people using his name have done terrible things" The only connection this has with 'Muslims in Australia' is as outlined above.. "IF" they resorted to civil disobedience, attacks.. warlike actions, due to say 'Cartoons' they find offensive, they are totally in harmony with their faith. "Fight those who do not believe in Allah" 9:29 This is happening RIGHT NOW as we speak in Denmark. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3T8rr5w3a8 there..you can see it in living color.. "now". Why do they react so passionately about insults? Why do Christians NOT react in that way? ..there is... a reason. "Love your enemies and do good to those who persecute you" (but if there are stupid laws which disadvantage you as a Christian in a democracy, use all lawful means to change them) Posted by BOAZ_David, Tuesday, 19 February 2008 8:26:11 AM
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THIS IS CLASSIC :)
Try to unpack this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7251378.stm STAGE 1 "Before it was my clothing was not correct, the food I ate wasn't good enough, the way I expressed myself wasn't good enough - now my Prophet is not good enough. The next would be I am not good enough," he says. STAGE 2 Radical Islamist parties have been quick to channel this sense of alienation. Hizb ut Tahrir in Denmark organised a protest against the reprinting of the cartoons. STAGE 3 Hundreds of demonstrators marched through the streets of Copenhagen shouting "God is Great!" and "Freedom of Speech is a plague!" Some Danes looked rather surprised. NOTICE that last sentence ? :) how ironic. They are USING the freedom of speech....in a democratic country.... to CONDEMN "freedom of speech." There is a little message in that for some of us. The alienation, comes NOT from such things as mentioned by that person. But from things like "Don't take Christians and Jews as friends" in the Quran....when the dividing line is thus established from 'their' side.. well shock horror.. people react to it.. and voila.. "They all hate us"(Muslim speaking) and thus stage 1 above is born. blessings. Posted by BOAZ_David, Tuesday, 19 February 2008 8:41:55 AM
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The fundamentals of Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Protestant, Jehovah's Witness and the Mormon religions (just as examples) have irreconcilable differences among them.
Even among the fundamentalists of those religions themselves, there is scant unity. Consequently, Christianity has become, perhaps, the most sect infested religion in the world today. Preaching fundamentalism has become big business in America. Evengalism seems to have all the trappings of modern multinationals - extraordinary large capital, large investments, complex bureaucracy, large "cuts" for the senior executives, a jet set life style, large domestic and an expanding overseas clientele, and an increasing political clout. In a primarily business oriented society like America, none would call this material success of the fundamentalists heresy. However, to make questionable presentations in order to lure the clientele is like passing an adulterated product in the market. Fundamentalism was shocked to the core and its membership plummeted in the recent past as incidences of sexual and financial scandals came to the surface in the early 90's, involving some of the most prominent fundamental ministers. Court convictions and a series of libel suits and counter suits that followed did not help the cause to say the least. Just as all Christians can't be lumped together - because there are so many different versions of practitioners. The same goes for Muslims. There are so many different national groups - with their own sets of problems. The teachings of the Qur'an (as with the teachings of the Bible) - are open to interpretation - and are practiced differently (especially by the two sects in Islam - Shia and Sunni). There is the fundamentalist Islam, and the non-fundamentalist Islam. There are those among Muslims who believe in the basic principles of Islam and there are those who do not. Then there are also nationalistic and social grievances that underlie the religious roots. The situation has to be looked in in its entire context to be fully understood. It can't be dismissed with - "We're Christians - therefore - we're good." "They're Muslims - therefore - they're evil!" Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 19 February 2008 9:51:43 AM
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Muslims in Australia - or anywhere in the West - are going to have to make many changes in their public personae before they cease to be viewed with suspicion.
Their beliefs and customs, in the privacy of their own homes, are their own business, but they are a long way short of accepting that they have to fit in with the rest of us in public. The dress adopted by some Muslim women for instance at worst rouses thoughts of hidden bombs; at best, it looks downright silly. Comparing Muslims with other immigrants i.e. race as compared with religion is way off the mark. Australia's non-discriminatory immigration policy has seen just about every race on earth coming here and, in most cases, being accepted. An in-your-face religion, however, is an entirely different matter in a secular country. Posted by Leigh, Tuesday, 19 February 2008 10:23:46 AM
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Sura, "7.54": "Surely your Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six periods of time, and He is firm in power; He throws the veil of night over the day, which it pursues incessantly; and (He created) the sun and the moon and the stars, made subservient by His command; surely His is the creation and the command; blessed is Allah, the Lord of the worlds".
Sura, "32.6": This is the Knower of the unseen and the seen, the Mighty the Merciful,
"32.7": Who made good everything that He has created, and He began the creation of man from dust.
"32.8": Then He made his progeny of an extract, of water held in light estimation