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The Forum > General Discussion > MUSLIMS IN AUSTRALIA.

MUSLIMS IN AUSTRALIA.

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Yes CJ that is why Australia is overrun with fundy Christians who are threatening to bomb infidels. that is why Australia is such a violent culture if we are to believe your lies. The facts are irellavent to your debate.
Posted by Philo, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 11:33:16 AM
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The whole point of this thread was not to "promote" religion - as one poster accused me of doing in another thread - but to promote understanding and tolerance. Muslims have existed in
Australia for decades - without any problems. Today - their situation is a complex one - and it's simplistic and ignorant to blame it all on their religion. There are so many national groups - which are so diverse. It is only a small minority of Muslims that have embraced extremist idealogies and violent tactics.

Before 1967, Islamic fundamentalism was a relatively small movement. However, Israel's swift success over Egypt, Jordan and Syria in the Six Day War spelled the end of Arab nationalism as an effective political movement to which citizens throughout the Arab world could rally, while Israel's conquest of Jerusalem, the third-most holy site in Islam, transformed the Israeli-Palestinian conflict from a regional conflict into one that affected all Muslims. Other crises throughout the Muslim world - upheaval in Malaysia in 1969, Pakistan's invasion of Bangladesh in 1971, and later, the revolution in Iran and the Lebanese civil war - spurred the sense that the West had failed Muslim societies not only as an ally but as a viable model of development.

Ironically, while radical Islamic groups have recently come to the forefront of policy concerns in Washington, the UK, and Australia, the United States and her allys, have frequently encouraged such movements either by outright support, as in Afghanistan where the U.S. supported mujahideen efforts to oust the Soviet Union, or by supporting oppressive regimes that then trigger a backlash both against the government and against the United States for supporting it, as in Iran.

The US and the Western world must clearly understand the reasons why a small but dangerous minority of Muslims have embraced extremist idelaogies and violent tactics. These movements are often rooted in legitimate grievances voiced by underrepresented and oppressive segments of the population, particularly the poor and the US and the West is increasingly identified with the political, social and economic forces that are responsible for their misery.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 12:13:57 PM
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Laughing out loud.. rolling around the floor.... good GRIEF fractelle :)

Howww many times have you seen insults directed at me.. I mean REAL insults. "Armchair Nazi".. "bigoted".. Bozo.. in fact the insults to me have reached an all time (and most satisfying) high with one person actually taking me seriously enough to invent a 'Bozo Dagwood' nick.. just to mock me.. I luv it :)

Stop whining about 'fractured'.. All you did there was confirm to every one able to read, that most critics of we anti pc brigade love to 'give' but seldom like to 'take'....

MOVVVing on...

INTEPRETATION.

Now.. we need to lift ourselves (Foxy/Romany) out of this head in the sand "you will never convince me" attitude and begin to open our minds to some truth. Truth..about 'how documents should be interpreted'.

1/ Most of life is based on..documents and their interpretation.
a)Law.
b)Technology.
c)Constitutions.

2/ In a chapter of probably 5000+words of 'a book' .. here is a little morsel which needs to be 'interpeted'

<<Hence the Jewish leadership in trade-union affairs remains uncontested until an enormous work of enlightenment influences the broad masses and sets them right about their never-ending misery, or else the state disposes of the Jew and his work.>>

Now.. 'How should the last phrase be intereted'?

a) Literal meaning of the words. 'Disposed of'
Thus..it could mean 'removing/exiling'.... not so bad.

b) We could look at how the author of those words and his close associates.. ACTUALLY implemented them.. in history!

Then..we can conclude that 'He mean't such and such'

3/ Had we been living at the time these words were penned..and obtained a copy of the book...I'm sure that the significance of that one small phrase would have totally escaped the reader...

So.. "Allahs curse on the Jews and Christians" needs examination of both the literal meaning..and the subsequent behavioral interpretation of the author and his companions.

It is then entirely.. no.. ABSOLUTELY legitimate for people who have the privilege of historic_hindsight, to make firm conclusions as to the meaning of such things.

Is there any other way?
Posted by BOAZ_David, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 12:29:31 PM
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*The US and the Western world must clearly understand the reasons why a small but dangerous minority of Muslims have embraced extremist idelaogies and violent tactics*

Foxy, I think that is quite well understood. Two things really
came together. Out of the Egyptian Brotherhood, came a guy called
Sayd Qutb (or similar spelling), whose ideology became huge, with
writings like "Milestones". His interpretations of Islam is pretty
much what drives the extreme side. Milestones is on the net, it
makes for interesting reading.

Next you had the situation in Saudi Arabia. When Saudi Arabia was
formed, deals were done. The Sauds got to run the oil wells and
money. In exchange for their support, the Wahabs got to decide
about religion. Wahabi Islam is far more extreme then your average
Sunnis or Shias.

With the huge wealth that flowed into Saudi Arabia, The Wahabs were
given huge amounts of money to promote Islam, build mosques around
the world etc, which is what has happened. Its Wahabi Islam that they
are promoting with those petrodollars. Many of those Wahabis have gone a step further,
following Qutb's interpretations of Islam, which is about the
violent overthrow of the West etc
Posted by Yabby, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 1:15:10 PM
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Fractelle and CJ – I’m with you concerning the sheer unprovoked viciousness displayed by these extremist Christians. BD earns every epithet he receives given the amount of patronising B/S he regularly dishes out to people who have simply posted their opinion without malice or attempt to troll.

BD you owe many people here an apology for your lack of courtesy and grace, I know that your arrogance will prevent you from doing so. I really wish that there was a Christ, because you would find then that your behaviour has been amongst the most unchristian of the many religious who post here.

Fractelle is right we DO have as much to fear from the likes of BD as we do from Muslim extremists, if that is the level integrity that a belief in religion creates.
Posted by Johnny Rotten, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 4:08:34 PM
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R0bert, said
Our resident anti-Muslim brigade has done much but Muslim leaders have also played a big role by not being public in their condemnation of the activities of a minority doing real harm.

Foxy replied
Dear Robert,

I fully agree with you. I can't understand why the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils (AFIC) which has its headquarters in
Sydney is not more vocal. AFIC represents the Muslims of Australia at the national and international level. They have offices in each state.
But we don't hear much from them. And we should.

They would have more sympathy and understanding from the general public, - if they made it clear that they did not condone violence.
It would certainly help distill the image that is being presented in the media.

Pale comments
glad that’s sorted
Stuck my neck out to attempt to answer. In hindsight I need not have felt obligated.
Still, I feel better now with absolutely no doubt as to what is important and what isn’t.
Other than saying there are ‘many concerned (some have spoken out publicly) including and Dr Ameer Ali and other Muslims I won’t try to go there.

Some Muslim leaders are concerned AFIC hasn’t done enough to encourage their own to denounce the activities of difficult Muslims.
By seeking ways to bridge the differences and only by doing that together with main stream Aussies and Muslim people united we will succeed.
Otherwise it may be lost by misunderstanding it as another jig at Muslims and things are far too serious to allow that to happen.

Yabby`s,
Comments are telling it like it is so if you use your imagination and consider how Australia fits in to the bigger picture you will understand we can’t afford to get it wrong here.

It is also important to understand their religion is linked to business and the word Halal involves just about everything they eat buy or use.
That said Australia IMOP must have a national accreditation. It’s imperative we know who we are supporting with funds doing trade or commercial business
Posted by People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 7:58:06 PM
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