Faxy having said that it's probably appropriate to point out that a desire not to air the dirty laundry (or deny it's existance) in public is something plenty of other groups have done very well at.

Many of the cases in the christain church where leadership has covered up for child abusers and in some cases left child abusers in contact with children have been far worse because the leaders had a specific responsibility to act.

Likewise most of us are keener to point out the failings of our opponents than our friends and relatives.

All to often leaders don't lead.

R0bert

Instead of “prejudice against them”, perhaps the question should be why Muslims have so much prejudice against non-Muslims... Of course, Muslims must always blame their problems of anything and everybody but their religion and themselves.

This would be a good time and place for Muslims to explain the generalized hate, oppression and violence against non-Muslims everywhere they dominate. This would be a good time to ask why other immigrant groups do not have the same issues of hate and violence that follow Muslim like a shadow.

Of course, Muslims don’t want to talk about these issues. They, and their multi-culturalist, PC friends, only want to focus on “prejudice” against Muslims, as if there were no motives that might contribute to that prejudice.

Maybe, who knows, they are “stigmatized with stereotypes” and maybe this “prejudice” has something to do with their actions.

Yes, Muslims are diverse, but last time I checked they all follow the Quran and accept its message of hate and violence without questions. Yes, they are diverse but these same issues are always present. Doesn’t that give you a clue? Yes, they are of many color and nationalities, but they all love and respect a man that did many vile things according to their own scriptures. Of course, they are only “vile” if you consider raids, plunder, murder, torture, slavery, rape, wife beating, oppression and preaching hate to be bad, but maybe these aren’t bad if Mohammad and Muslims do them.

Foxy, I am being civilized -- and honest. I wouldn’t have to raise these issues if Muslims would address these terrible problems. But no, things just get worse and worse because Muslims refuse to look at their religion and actions. They blame all their problems on everybody but themselves, their actions and Islam. In a way, people like me and others are better friends to Muslims than those who pretend there are no problems – as we all walk down the road to a future hell on earth wherein these questions will be discussed in blood, not words.

Thank you for talking about this.

Kactuz

Dear people...Prejudice.. 'people' ? yes..and no.

I'm not prejudiced against 'Germans' but I am VERY prejudiced against 'nazis'

It should be about 'prejudice against evil doctrines'

I am VERY prejudiced against the Jehovah Witness doctrine which they use to justify letting an innocent defenseless child DIE rather than give a blood transfusion..

I will speak..and rant..and froth..about the injustice and inhumanity of such a thing. Only an infantile knee jerk moron would translate opposition to a doctrine into personal abuse of people. The options are

-'persuade' people..by passionate debate and presenting facts.
-'Enforce' compliance by legal means.. change the law.

Looking around for 'good things Jehovah's witnesses have done in Australia' (to extend Foxy's example to them) does nothing.. zero.. for changing the deathly doctrine which can only be described as 'child abuse'.

So.. this thread.. is quite dangerous if it shifts the focus from the important point and tries to turn serious issues into simple anecdotal points scoring for various religious groups.

DON'T be prejudiced against people wo in their ignorance follow certain doctrines.
DO be prejudiced against abuse, inhumanity and cruelty.

DO be prejudiced against "people" who.. after knowing exactly what their beliefs mean for others.. (The destruction of Jews and Christians in the Quran) still persist..and dig their heels in and show no intention of retreating from what they now know to be true of their own belief.

BE prejudiced against them at the legal..social and cultural levels.
DO all you can to change the law to protect yourself democratically from such views and....such people.

BE...like Jesus.. yes.. like Him... as he used the above pattern 100%

He did signs and miracles to show the truth of His messiahship... and when this was accepted.. he blessed the hearers.
When he did signs which were irrefutable..and showed his divine credentials..and they were rejected ?.....

"Woe to you, Korazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes."

This..is the real Jesus....not the sentimental invented one.

*smiling.....smiling*....

myyy goodness :)

Robert.. well said mate...

Foxy responds:

Dear Robert,

I fully agree with you. I can't understand why the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils (AFIC) which has its headquarters in
Sydney is not more vocal.

err.Foxy.. you can't...but I can.

One possssible reason might be.. that Tom Zrieka tried it..and received death threats within hours.
This is entirely consistent with Mohammad.. sending a hit squad to 'silence Ka'b Bin Al Ashraf..for 'mocking' him.
("Silence"=hacked him to bits and slashed him right left and centre)

But hey..lets focus on the 'nice' Muslims....rather than the one on whom their faith is based.

Can anyone imagine what the Catholic or Anglican church would be like if Jesus had ACTUALLY molested children ?

cheers.

Boazy, if it's the case that the teachings of islam support child abuse and the teachings of the christain church are opposed to it then people of both faiths have done a remarkable job of going against the teachings of their faith.

One of the problems of trying to discuss issues such is this is that the dishonest will try and distort whatever is said to support their own twisted message. Probably a significant reason for muslim leadership being been unwilling to publically confront what problems do exist.

"DO be prejudiced against "people" who.. after knowing exactly what their beliefs mean for others still persist..and dig their heels in and show no intention of retreating from what they now know to be true of their own belief."

So what do your beliefs say about me as someone who does not follow your god? Last I heard that meant your beliefs were proposing an eternity of suffering for me. Hellfire and brimstone and all that.
Not nice at all.

"DO all you can to change the law to protect yourself democratically from such views and....such people."

Amen to that.

R0bert

ROBERT...at last :)

"So what do your beliefs say about me as someone who does not follow your god? Last I heard that meant your beliefs were proposing an eternity of suffering for me. Hellfire and brimstone and all that."

Rob... you yourself know what the scriptures teach.

It is up to each one of us to place ourselves either for... or agaist the following:

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."

You know exactly where you stand, and why.

You can question the authority of the scriptures.. of God.. of all.. and perhaps because of that, there is still hope. But my position and that of any serious Christian, is to proclaim.... invite.... explain.

Jesus did suggest that there is a point where further proclamation is futile..and that once a clear presentation of truth is made, and is rejected, then "shake off the dust of your feet against them".

I suspect that this was uttered in a context where a considerable number of healings and signs and miracles took place, because those things were characteristic of the in-breaking of the Kingdom during Jesus lifetime and that of the Apostles.. and continues in various places by Gods grace to people today. I have previously testified to it myself.

Yes..if you (and anyone)were to die today, unrepentant.. you would have issues of great importance that you would need to face. This translates into nothing more by us than the simple statement of the fact. There is no biblical 'human wrath' for apostasy from Christ.

Unlike my usual target, there is no call to dish out what I asked Foxy to read the other day, which she apparently did, but remained silent after.. while knowing full well that by all measure of reasonable conduct she should have at least acknowledged that it was real and horrific.

Under Christ.. we are under patient and enduring Grace. Under 'the other' mob, you are under threat of death if you did what you did in their system.