*dummy spit approaching*

Bah! Debate punishment all you like. People prefer to talk punishment because it's the easier question - look 'em up and chuck away the key! Unfortunately, punishment takes place *after* abuse. The thrust of this report is about trying to give boys the opportunity to decry abuse taking place. What would you prefer, a boy who is abused once and a perp who is caught and gets twenty years, or a boy who is abused for five years, who says nothing for a further ten years, and then, possibly, the perpetrator - who has had a full fifteen years available to him/her to mete out further abuse - is caught and gets twenty years?

But blame inadequate punishment, if that's what you'd prefer.

Blame pornography. Blame women. Blame fags. Gun for the death penalty. Pooh pooh the research without due consideration.

Apart from Foxy, no on appears to be interested in the issues raised by this report. The fact that boys are, for very particular reasons, reluctant to report abuse, and that in-school programs designed primarily for girls don't appear to work that well for boys.

That's a pity. But at least you've all had the opportunity to draw attention to your own particular bete noir.

*dummy spit ends*

Vanilla, I've seen far worse dummy spits so don't fret to much.

The report takes quite a bit of pondering, a process which I'm still doing.
The issues seem to be
- boys are different to girls and may not initially be as uncomfortable with sexual contact as girls. Things can go a lot further before the alarm bells are ringing and by then a boy can be in a position where to report the abuse he risks exposing himself to blame. May not want to be accussed of being a "fag" etc.
- boys are not often believed.
- boys are much less likely than girls to report abuse (I've seen similar for adults in the DV area).
- sexual abuse causes harm, the act of facing up to abuse may also cause harm but if I've understood the report correctly it's less harm than remaining silent.
- most of the prevention strategies are based around work done with girls and may be particularly ineffective for boys.

To add my own ponderings to this
- Seeing how public cases are treated when the perpetrator is female the boy's involved seem to gain some "cred" and the public/media is more willing to treat the childs keenness to participate as a mitigating factor.
- Generally people are more concerned about the possibility of abuse to girls than boys, despite the stats we still don't really think it will happen.
- Some are down on porn regardless of of evidence or lack thereof. I posted links some time ago to findings from the USA which indicate that the states with the highest takeup of internet usage (and therefore easier access to porn for teenage boys) are showing a significant drop in sexual assault committed by teenage boys compared to states with lower internet takeup's. Other crime figures are not shifting corespondingly. It's early days for that research and nothing has been proven yet but it appears to be a clearer link between porn and sex crimes than can be shown by the "anti-porn" lobby.

R0bert

I am making time to try to read some of the other threads today.

Most people are aware that abuse has a direct link to abuse to of Animals.

That was originally what drew my attention to this thread.

Vanilla you should be congradulated for bringing this to peoples attention.

I am not sure that there are any different symptoms between boys than girls reading your comments.

However you would be correct in saying most of the attention seems to be directed at girls and this does need to be changed.

I have spent the last three years trying to get some action from about a offender of a person I met through my work.

I cant say its acheived much as the offender he walks free to continue offending with claims (it is a old matter) from Police.

You requested ideas on how we could make changes for the better.

One thing you could request is that upon a statement from a boy charges could be made.

This seems to be the problem because in the end they let the kids down by first taking reports only to tell them = Sorry no proof.

This is the worste possible outcome.

Perhaps if we can find a foot baller or person with a public face who would be prepaired to `come out` and publicly talk about his experience as a it may be seen as more `cool` to ask for help.

RSPCA QLD run programes against domestic volience and animal abuse.
I will enquire if something may be done as a start if you wish.

However it would have to be on the that yourself were interested to be the base etc I am sure.

Others than that may I respectfully suggest perhaps yourself and Foxy could throw your hats in the next Federal Elections.

Although I think we already have Foxy ear marked for the next `Gov General.`

So we thank yourself and Foxy especially and will watch your thread with great interest.

I've been thinking about Gibo's idilyic 1950's vision (pre mainstream porn) and pondering how many of the institutional abusers had access to porn in those years and the ones which follow. My guess is that most did not have viable access.

Started doing a little browsing on the web regarding child abuse in the 1950's - I've found a site with submissions to the Senate Community Affairs References Committee - http://www.aph.gov.au/Senate/committee/clac_ctte/inst_care/

I came to the site from a link to one of the submissions which is hard reading
http://www.aph.gov.au/Senate/committee/clac_ctte/inst_care/submissions/sub262.doc .

The victim is female but hopefully that off topic aspect can be excused.

"In 1950 I was six years old when I went to live with the foster family, they changed my name to Lorraine Baker but not legally .The mother was very strict and Godly. The father and both their teenage sons sexually abused me. It started when he would tell the mother that he would bath me for her. He would rub me very hard in my private parts and when I pulled away because it hurt. He asked me what have you been doing, he was talking right into my ear, saying to me that I had been letting the boys at school play with me down there, and that’s why your sore isn’t it, the whole time he was touching me there. He said that it would be our secret, that he wouldn’t tell the mother because she would give me the belt and take me back to the orphanage for telling lies because the nuns and my mother had told them that I told lies. I learned not to tell well. I had the bath scene played out many times...."

I've not yet worked through much of the material on the site this was found on. An account by a male victim from the very early 60's is another one which I've read http://www.aph.gov.au/Senate/committee/clac_ctte/inst_care/submissions/sub312.pdf

R0bert

Hi RObert,

Yar, I've read the Forgotten Australians report, although I've never got through all those submissions. Harrowing reading. It reminded me that I'd written down an extract from one of the submissions down though...

"I (aged 71) decided to write about my past in the hope that it will help me to understand myself and to help take away the guilt which has spoilt not only my own life but that of just about everyone else I was close to." (Sub 320)

As for porn, I have no doubt it is used in sexual abuse, and a lot of perps use it. But so does 95% of the rest of the population. And it's wrong to suggest that there is a direct correlation. As I said before, the same can be said for alcohol and drugs. Measuring sexual abuse before the onslaught of internet porn is impossible anyway, because we also know there's been an increase in reportage and awareness in the same period.

It seems boys need to understand that if certain things happen to them their bodies react in certain ways - even if they don't like those happenings. They need to be clear about who the perve is.

PACE, I actually think that's an amazing idea - a celeb speaking out. In the same way that Ian Roberts made it easier for a generation of boys to a. come out, and b. not freak out if their mates came out.

But it's like Aesop's fable - The mice vote to put a bell on the cat so they can hear it coming. "Ah," says the wise old mouse. "But who shall bell the cat?" How would the celebrity abuse victim be found? And how persuaded to come out?

The abuser of the boy I knew abused at least one other boy. The cops knew of more, apparently. They wanted to throw the book at him, but none ocould or would testify at the time.

At least one other victim is dead. Suicide.

The guy who abused them is a social worker in a Queensland hospital.

I think there are number of preventative measures that both govt and community could and should take.

See this Myths and Facts sheet here:http://www.communities.qld.gov.au/projectaxis/myths.html

What I find interesting in this list of myths and facts is the section
that states:

Myth:

Children and young people are sexually abused because their parents/caregivers neglected to care for, or supervise them properly

Fact:
Offenders use a range of tactics to gain access to their victims. The offender alone is responsible for their actions. Many offenders are experts in manipulating both the victim and the people who care for them.

I have not read the report that inspired this discussion post but I imagine that it does recognise that abuse takes place across classes.

The access to help services is therefore a socio economic variable.