Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on one cotton pickin' minute there boaz.

You speak of two groups of muslims in Australia, the easy going moderates and the radicals.

And your solution for the easy going ones is:

"For group 1... the solution is the proclaiming of the Gospel of salvation in the boldness and annoining of the Holy Spirit...such that 'whosoever will...may come"

I can only conclude that by saying this, you mean one of two things. Either A) you're suggesting we convert them to christianity, or B) you're suggesting we continuously harangue them in attempts to convert them to Christianity.

That's the dumbest thing I ever heard. This is a SECULAR nation, boaz. Our heritage may be Christian, but last time I checked, we still had separation of church and state, and we didn't decide our policies on religious thinking. You've accepted the importance of keeping christianity apart from government yourself.

I'm pretty easy going for mot osf your posts, because by and large they seem pretty peaceful, but if your 'solution' involves conversion to Christianity, I find that very, very ugly.

It seems that the problem some people have with certain elements of Islam is their rigidity against secular nations.

The solution is not to adopt the same attitudes, regardless of how peacefully you insist they join.

BOAZ

I used to think you were just a bit thick, but what characterises much of your "Christian" fundamentalist contribution to OLO is gross distortion and, if if you think necessary, lies.

Your picture of a large kirpan accompanied by your comment, "I can see it all now.. a 15 yr old Sikh kid at school...with THAT" is a disgrace. I'll bet you tell your children that lying is a sin.

Do you ever blush?

For Christains already here.. and those embracing that faith.. there are 2 groups and thus, there must be 2 approaches.

2 GROUPS..

1/ the nominal..cultural...and the sincere but gentle.

2/ The radical die hard.

For group 1... the solution is to badger them continuously with the truth.
For group 2.. its the AFP and Asio.

Something just does not sit right about that although it's as close as I could come on the spur of the moment to Boazy's proposal.

I'd rather leave that first group to live their lives by their beliefs as long as those beliefs are not allowed to impact on others.

Boazy clearly falls into the second group and should be dealt with accordingly.

R0bert

Well, this is a new position, Boaz. I might just hold you to it.

>>I am not calling for the 'elimination' of a religion<<

Then how exactly do you describe your position?

If your "solution" is to incite a crusade against Islam, which would seem to be the objective of your rabble-rousing, where would you stop? It isn't easy separating the wheat from the chaff, you know. So you'd be bound to continue until they're all gone, wouldn't you?

If your "solution" is to convert every Muslim to Christianity, that will have the same effect.

No, I'm sorry, but the only real solution is for you to find a way to live alongside Muslims, in the same way you live alongside atheists, rastafarians and Roman Catholics.

With tolerance, and an understanding that there exist people in this world who do not share your views.

Are you capable of doing this? Who would you accept as an example of how it is done?

FrankGol: "There are dozens of books on this topic."

Books, books, books.
Haven't read every book ever written? You're "pig ignorant"!

A response within 17 minutes?
A list you prepared for such an emergency, Agent FrankGol?

Walk among the people, Frank.
The "rabble", the "mob".
Not your elitist friends.

Ask Gazza and Shazza if they know any famous Muslims (that aren't terrorists or warmongering "prophets").

Alfred Nobel felt guilty for *inventing dynamite*, so tried to assuage his guilt with the Prizes.

Apparently he didn't think mathematics, philosophy or social studies mattered.
The arts? Literature.
Only books matter, eh Frank?

The Peace Prize has been won by Al Gore and Henry Kissinger!

Anwar Sadat: peaceful Muslim?
The same Anwar Sadat, who started a war against Israel on Yom Kippur, the holiest Jewish holiday, when Israel was most vulnerable.
What a guy!

Yasser Arafat was a terrorist!
One member of the Nobel Committee *resigned in protest*!

There's *some* notable Muslims? I'm shocked!
There are no doubt some notable Basque, Tamil, or Inuit persons.
How much does that influence life in Australia?
Not one bit.

Pericles ignores my last post and attacks the easier target of Boazy's Christian zeal.
It's a lot harder to attack a *decadent* "agenda".

Pericles, like FrankGol, confuses two completely different things:
1. Liberalism, or personal freedom, *within* Australia.
2. The movement of people across borders.

Movement of large numbers of people, with unrelated and incompatible cultures, across borders is a different issue to *internal* liberalism.

It's artificial cultural change.
Not internally voluntary, spontaneous or organic change.

Movement across borders is not a "right", it's a privilege that can be revoked.

Here's a litmus test: ask every Muslim you know (if any) what they think of Elvis Presley.

Almost all of Western popular culture in the last 50 years has been directly or indirectly influenced by him.

He's the St Peter of Western pop culture:
"On this Rocker, we will build our Culture."

Are Muslims pro-Elvis or anti-Elvis (or even Elvis-neutral)?
I think we both know the answer Pericles, but only I'd be honest enough to say it.

TRTL and FRANK...

no no no... not 'convert them to Chrisitanity' in the way you seem to be suggesting.
"proclaim" the Gospel in as many ways as we can without adding offence to it. This might mean approaching people and ASKing if they would like to know more, broadcasting a radio program..handing out a piece of literature... or.. door knocking.. (shudder) or..online or through relationships.. or through a coffee at maccas as FH and I had.. Since he did most of the talking, I'd hardly say I badger people. Badgered/harangued people (like tortured) will possibly convert on the outside, but not the inside.. so it's pointless.

Pericles. point taken.. I do hope for the elimination of Islam in Australia (and the world) but only through normal conversion,.. and faith on their part.. free choice.
You continually confuse the 'legal/cultural framework' which I address as a member of Australian society, and the Gospel framework which is addressed to peoples hearts.

Robert..points noted.

Frank.. "Lie" ? good grief.. I've done the research on the Kirpan, and it can (from Sikh sources) be from a small crucifix size (acceptable) to a sword size. do some reading old son and stop acting like a 'leftoid' :)

i.e. "He disagrees with me..MUST be a racist.. so I'll call him that."
or.. "I disagree with him..I'll just call him a liar"....
too cheap matey.