Hmmm.. I shouldn't let my part in this thread descend into a divisive argument about Islam and Muslims, but it seems Pericles has led the way.

You said:

"Give me one good reason why I should believe that your interpretation of someone else's religion is accurate"

....and here is that ONE very good sound reason. 'context'

Surah 9

-Historical..... Mohammad and the Muslims were increasingly in conflict with the Byzantines. As a result, the verses I often quote, are relevant to that situation and forever. The immediate relevance is indicated by reference to broken treaties, by mohammad himself declaring himself free of obligation to treaties, his call (in that context) to hunt down and kill unbelievers (like you) where ever they can be found etc...

-Hermeneutical. The Quran is said to have many 'levels' of meaning. Ok.. let it be so, but for sure, one level is the 'obvious meaning in context' of the words in the document. Now..by applying the same principles as I (or you) would to the Australian constitution, we can arrive at a sound understanding of the meaning and significance of the Quran.

The progression of events is:

-General climate of conflict with both the pagans and the Byzantines.
-The words of Surah 9 are intended to rally the Muslims to war.
-The SCOPE of the declaration of war is the key to understanding the on-going Muslim/Islamic position re non Muslims.

SCOPE. The particular nature of the condemnation of Jews and Christians in verse 30 is eternal in nature. It does not connect with any specific event, but is general. The Jews and Christians are condemned because of their CORE BELIEFS... which we still hold to this day.

REPEATED APPLICATION of 9:29 by Mohammad himself (Hadith Muslim book 1, 29 30 31 32 33) in the context of aggressive war and invasion of non muslims.

PERSONAL CONTACT. Bassam Zawadi is a Muslim apologist and has clearly and unambiguously supported my interpretation in emails.
http://answering-christianity.com/bassam_zawadi/index.html

KIRPAN
I rang the Attourney General Canberra today, about the Kirpan, they were surprised it was allowed and are looking into constitutionality.

Oh, come now, Boaz, this is not the time to hide your light under a bushel.

>>Hmmm.. I shouldn't let my part in this thread descend into a divisive argument about Islam and Muslims, but it seems Pericles has led the way.<<

May I just point out a teensy crack in the fabric of your apparent reluctance?

You started this thread on 6th December. On the very next day, only three posts later in fact, you wrote:

>>Hi Scotty.. yes.. who knows eh. BASS HILLS ISLAMIC SCHOOL.. the sequel.<<

So it is just a little hypocritical of you to suggest that I am somehow responsible for introducing "a divisive argument about Islam and Muslims".

If I were the sort of person to be outraged, I probably would be.

But this is to me just another example of your ability to say anything you feel like, without regard for truth or consistency.

As for these attempts to justify your fear and loathing of Islam, they are exactly the same as they have always been, and equally unconvincing. You have no scholarship in interpretation of the Qur'an, only a desire to paint its content in the blackest possible light.

Do you dispute this? Then please, show me one instance where you have taken the opposite stance.

As I have said on many occasions, the only possible reason that you continue to post here in these debates is to denigrate someone else's religion, and to take any and every opportunity to vilify, by association, its adherents. This is called rabble-rousing, and it does you no credit to continue to practise it.

Pericles: "What should be our baseline?"

Freedom.

No society has absolute freedom.
But that's the theoretical baseline for comparison.

Does Islam preach freedom?

If their population grows in Australia, will that enhance or diminish our freedom?

Have you seen the headlines recently?
Almost all conflict is either attacks by Muslims, or a reaction to their attacks.

Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland aren't fighting about religion, they're fighting about sovereignty.
And they're not killing Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons for their "heresy".

There are no more crusades, inquisitions, witch-hunts.
Christianity has mellowed.

Islam hasn't. It still petulantly thinks it should rule the world.

It's not "just" a religion, neatly compartmentalised to Sunday mornings.

It's a political/religious reality-system.

And a particularly oppressive one, that severely punishes anybody who questions it or tries to live outside it.

Islam is Nazism without the snazzy uniforms.
"Allah uber alles"
(A fatwa, for me? You shouldn't have!)

It is incompatible with Australia's modern, egalitarian, liberal, democratic and cheeky nature.

"It sure must be tough being you, living with all that fear."

Yes, I know. It'd be so much easier if I could just wish, hope, pretend, ignore.

Tell all the people killed by Islamic suicide bombers recently that there's really nothing to fear.
You're spitting on their graves.

Maybe Muslims should take over the world.
That'll shut you lot up for good.

Then you'll see Islam's true nature and it won't be pretty.

Will you still be making excuses for them when they're taxing you more or less depending on your faith, chopping off the hands of shoplifters, or executing Australians for having consensual gay sex.

The existing Islamic World is a lost cause.
Let them live in their Dark Ages.
But we can prevent our society becoming a part of "The House Of Islam".

My "naked fear" is founded in fact.
Your "naked naivety" is founded in *theory*.

I don't care what Islam could, would or should be.

I see what it is: Totalitarianism.

I see what they would do: Kill me.

Afraid?
More like annoyed.
Annoyed by Muslims. Annoyed by their pathetic Western apologists.

You are indeed a puzzle, Shockadelic.

But what a sad post! Despair, resignation, despondency, bluster oozing from every sentence.

Despair: >>I see what it is: Totalitarianism. I see what they would do: Kill me.<<

Resignation: >>Maybe Muslims should take over the world. That'll shut you lot up for good.<<

Despondency: >>Then you'll see Islam's true nature and it won't be pretty<<

Bluster: >>My "naked fear" is founded in fact. Your "naked naivety" is founded in *theory*<<

I can only conjecture what frame of mind you were in when you wrote it, but I'm glad I wasn't around at the time. Although it might have stopped you having the whole bottle yourself.

>>Annoyed by Muslims. Annoyed by their pathetic Western apologists<<

It is such a strain, isn't it, having to live with "other" people in the world. People who think differently, have a different God, are a subtly different colour (not that you have anything against that) or a subtly different sexual orientation (ditto).

Time for a change, Shockadelic.

Embrace differentness. Glorify otherness. Do something daring, like talk to a stranger. When you buy a copy of Big Issue, ask the vendor how he's doing. And listen to the answer.

And instead of assuming that people who disagree with your viewpoint are necessarily evangelists for your opponents' cause, actually consider their position dispassionately. At which point you can disagree intelligently, rather than just spread the grey gloop of your fear and loathing across the page.

>>Islam is Nazism without the snazzy uniforms. "Allah uber alles"<<

Have a great day. Take two aspirin and see me in the morning.

Pericles, get your aspirin now. You'll need it.

"Consider their position *dispassionately*."

Tell that to the Muslims.
"Azize, put down the detonators. If decadent infidels want to stick butt plugs up their arse, surely that is their own concern."

When I make a dispassionate statement of fact, you describe it as drunken despair.

"It is such a strain, isn't it, having to live with "other" people in the world."

Again, tell that to the Muslims.

You just keep repeating a redundant assertion: that intolerant people must be tolerated, or I'm just as bad as them, despite the fact I tolerate millions of "sinful" things they never would.

"Embrace differentness. Glorify otherness."

It's Groundhog Day!
*Again*, tell that to the Muslims.

You have no idea how "other" I am, baby!
I am the King of Otherland.
And in Otherland, sworn enemies of otherness cannot be our *ally*, now can they?

Muslims *despise* otherness.
Otherness is my very life.
There isn't an orthodox bone in my body.
Precisely why I distrust people whose sworn objective is moral domination of the entire world.

Do you know *anything* about Islam?
You think it's just namby-pamby wussy fluff like Buddhism?
"Ah, Grasshopper, you have much to learn."

In a Christian country, I could say I use pages of the Bible as toilet paper.
(Is that "other" enough for you?)

Most people would just roll their eyes and sigh.

In a Muslim country, if I said I use pages of the Koran as toilet paper, people wouldn't just roll their eyes.

I would be executed.
*Killed* for using a book made of paper as toilet paper.

Salman Rushdie would be killed by Muslims for writing a book.
A novel at that!

Killing people over *books*.
These are the people I'm supposed to tolerate, embrace and glorify?

If anybody tolerated, embraced and glorified Nazism, you'd be the first to repudiate them.
"Try to *understand* the Nazis, Shockadelic. They couldn't possibly be sadistic madmen, just look at their snazzy uniforms! There's nothing to fear!"

You are the puzzle, Pericles.
You would destroy freedom in the name of freedom.

Matt. 10:34 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth, but a sword." Attributed to [loving] Jesus. Morover, Yahweh was a war god. Constintine suppressed non-Christians and destroyed non-Christian temples/statues: Like the Taleban as I have mentioned in other posts.