Allowing people to have 'last say' is usually the only way to shut them up.

A Peace Plan for a Demographic that has no concept of peace ?

mhaze,

You’ve misread me three times:

1. I didn’t deny people were leaving - I clarified how, because that affects your "ICE is getting it done" claim.

2. I didn’t say the number is exactly 10-11 million - I said credible estimates converge there. FAIR and CIS don’t shift that, unless you treat partisan spin as data.

3. I didn’t dispute that some Americans support deportation - I questioned how far that support extends, especially regarding ICE’s methods.

Correcting a misframed point isn’t "goalpost shifting." It’s accuracy. If that’s a threat to your argument, maybe the argument isn’t sound.

Now, you’ve announced you’re leaving the thread - but only after tossing a final volley of misquotes, flattening distinctions, and casting yourself as the disappointed adult in the room.

That’s not disengagement. That’s performance - trying to shut the door while holding a megaphone.

You’ve framed any reply as desperation, misrepresented what was actually said, and projected your own tactics (like redefining and inflating) onto me. That’s not debate. It’s narrative control.

You’re free to leave. Just don’t pretend it’s because you "won." You’re leaving because details stopped working in your favour.

On your way now - but don't pretend you're leaving with any dignity, given your unwavering support for someone doing their best to trash a democracy.

Bye bye.

"Fear-based flight isn’t policy success. It’s the absence of due process, and proof that ICE’s shift from law enforcement to intimidation worked too well."

You might be right, but how much due process should a non citizen get?
Should someone who gets into a canoe and rows themselves to Australia, and turfs their passport over the side on the way, suddenly enjoy indefinite taxpayer funds thrown a them?
Look at what we spent on Nauru with private US contractors. (non-aus workforce seems a bit suss)

"You brought up support for deportation. I pointed out the poll you cited didn’t ask about ICE’s surveillance powers, masked raids, or sentiment-tracking AIs. That’s not changing the subject. It’s clarifying that support for one tactic doesn’t equal support for all."

- I think the surveillance issue is a double edged sword.
If government don't do some surveillance and the undocumented commit a serious crime, say murder, then questions are asked why the government wasn't doing anything, on the other side, people will be upset about the surveillance.

Masked raids, sometimes they seem a bit too much, but what if some disgruntled group from in El Salvador decide to target the ICE employees families, I guess you have to protect your own from hostile foreigners.

Live sentiment tracking AI, should we expect anything else, given the time and place we find ourselves at? I expect both sides will engage in it, the thing about technology is that once 'we can' someone else argues it's bad not to take advantage of such tools.

'We want to make sure we are connected to the hearts and minds of our constituents' they'll say.

[Cont.]
"Nor does it mean mass deportation is feasible, affordable, or moral."
Card carrying citizens get the final say on whether you can stay or you have to go. 'slike being a guest in someone else home, the person who owns the place and pays the bills gets the final say on who can come and go and stay.

To suggest otherwise removes the existing populace from 'their country'

Applicants don't get a say in the decision making process.

Feasible and affordable are important points, but not the main one.
Is it moral to place existing citizens at risk by crimes of the undocumented, and how much of that can you sweep under the rug, before the real citizenry express their disapproval.

Are 'legal sanctuary policies' really legal if they put existing citizens at risk? And if so, should they be?

"...half the population as 'the enemy within'."
- Both sides do it, it's a democracy downward spiral.
The political landscape has become toxic, and society along with it.

I can't help but notice when I look at all the photos and film coming out of Gaza showing their celebrations at the end of Hamas' war, that you can't find anyone who looks even slightly thin, let alone malnourished.

All the tales that began on 8/10/23 about famine being just around the corner. Yet the only evidence we see of malnourishment is when we see photos of the hostages. (Even sainted Greta couldn't find any Gazans starving so had to slip a picture of a hostage in to try to fake the issue.)

Sure we've seen weak and emaciated kids, but every time, EVERY TIME, its looked into, the kid had some other underlying medical issue that caused the emaciation - nothing to do with lack of food.

Oh and remember how those evil Jews cut of all power to the place. Yet now we see thousands of cell phones, all powered up and recording the event for posterity. It seems power wasn't quite so hard to come by after all. OMG, did they lie??

And you can see video of people walking down streets lined with what looks like rather well stocked shops, open for business.

It was all smoke and mirrors that the usual suspects totally fell for - and will joyously fall for the next time too.