Dear Foxy,

«And, I do not wish to argue with your logic.»

Nor are you required to argue, yet you do.

Perhaps I should not address you in the first place, so you are do not feel pressured to argue - I thought it polite to address you when quoting your words, but my responses here are for all the readers, not just for you, alerting them to be careful with comments which defy logic so they don't blindly fall for them.

Will it help if in future I only refer to the contents of your posts without referring to you personally?

Yuyutsu,

Historically gender in Western societies has been a simple
thing to define because it was seen as an extension of
biological sex. " Women" were seen as human females and "men"
were seen as human males. Male and female were understood as
biological categories.

This was the norm and this view espoused that sex predetermines
or limits a host of social, psychological and behavioural
traits that are inherently different between men and women.

This is where you get stereotypes like "Men are rational
and unemotional" while women are "passive and caring."

Many people today still don't distinguish between sex and
gender.

Hundreds of traditional cultures around the world have
conceptions of gender that extend beyond the binary of men
and women. Our perceptions of masculinity and femininity can
vary between societies and cultures. Sex is scientifically
observable, but it is being questioned because there are
over millions of inter-sex people all over the world.

That's why I said that we shall have to agree to disagree
on this subject.

We simply see things differently. And I see no further point
in arguing. I have no wish to convert anyone.

You may certainly continue to address me - however I may
subsequently choose to ignore your logic if I don't see anything
constructive in continuing the conversation.

Enjoy the week-end.

Dear Foxy,

«That's why I said that we shall have to agree to disagree
on this subject.»

There is nothing I disagree (or previously disagreed) with in your last post on the subject of gender.

I only ever disagreed when you referred to gender as an "identity" - in your last post you did not do so and I actually think that it was a very good post.

Yuyutsu,

In the United States there's a move for legislation
for gender to be determined solely by the genitals that
a person has at birth. Strictly male or female and that
this be made unchangeable.

This proposal would eliminate the very idea of a transgender
person.

It's one thing for people to have to defend their very
existence and who they are, but quite another on the
frequency and degree to which transgender people experience
negative emotions. This significantly increases especially when
they feel that their identity is under increased threat.

In other words people who are already under stress become
even more so . There's clearly a negative impact on the
mental health of transgender people when their identity is
decried in this way. Suicide rates increase.

It is for that reason that gender identity is important to
transgender people to be at least acknowledged.

I'm probably not putting it very well but I hope that you
will understand what I am trying to explain and why
for transgender people the recognition of their gender
identity matters.

Dear Foxy,

«In the United States... This proposal would eliminate the very idea of a transgender person.»

I agree - so far so bad...

«It's one thing for people to have to defend their very
existence and who they are»

They may have to defend their gender alright,
but one's gender is not one's very existence.

One never needs to defend who they are - because nothing others do or don't could ever in eternity change who you are and turn you into someone else!!

«This significantly increases especially when
they feel that their identity is under increased threat.»

If that is so, if that is how they feel, then they are completely deluded: absolutely nothing, neither in heaven nor on earth can ever threaten one's identity.

«There's clearly a negative impact on the
mental health of transgender people when their identity is
decried in this way.»

Their identity is not decried, only their gender is.
I also do not approve of decrying their gender, yet it has nothing to do with their identity.

If transgender people realise this, that their gender is not their identity, then while it may not in itself directly alleviate their objective social problems, their mental health can improve dramatically.

«It is for that reason that gender identity is important to
transgender people to be at least acknowledged.»

Quite the opposite: identifying themselves with their gender (being transgender in their particular case) is what give them most anguish.
It can still be important for them to have their gender acknowledged, but if they stop identifying with their gender then it won't be as painful for them when it is not acknowledged.

«I'm probably not putting it very well but I hope that you
will understand what I am trying to explain and why
for transgender people the recognition of their gender
identity matters.»

Recognition of their gender matters, I do understand that, even agree, but identity is something else altogether, completely completely different.

Yuyutsu,

Gender is a personal choice. And I accept people who say
that they identify differently to their biological sex.

Nature isn't simple. Not only are some people homosexual but
they're also transgender and fluid and several other
choices on the spectrum. Does it matter? Yes. it matters
to them. In time I hope that it will matter less.

We can reject the identities and choices of others - however,
these we can't change who they believe they are and how
they identify. End of story.

Nuff said.