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The Forum > General Discussion > The fallacy of a 2 state solution for Palestine.

The fallacy of a 2 state solution for Palestine.

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A 2 state solution has been the holy grail for Israel for 8 decades. From 1947 to today various versions have been negotiated with about 17 rejections from the "Palestinians" The rejections were believed to be because no Palestinian wanted to be the person responsible for the recognition of Israel.

The main obstacle is that there are no trustworthy negotiators on the Arab side as both Hamas and Fatah don't recognise Israel's right to exist and both fund terrorist movements to kill Jews.

"Today, Israelis don’t believe a Jewish state can live alongside a Palestinian one.

As it stands, they have lost all faith in a two-state solution — not that they had much to begin with, even before Hamas’ Oct. 7 attacks on southern Israel. Rather, they want bigger and better fortifications and greater vigilance in the wake of the intelligence and security lapses that failed to prevent what was clearly a long-planned pogrom."
Posted by shadowminister, Thursday, 22 February 2024 2:58:47 PM
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Both Iran and Palestine want Israel obliterated. So now we know which way this civil war is going.
The destruction of the Hamas regime is a great plus for civilized persons which Iran has to be accountable. Then you may see peace in the middle east.
Posted by Riely, Thursday, 22 February 2024 3:49:39 PM
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"The main obstacle is that there are no trustworthy negotiators on the Arab side as both Hamas and Fatah don't recognise Israel's right to exist and both fund terrorist movements to kill Jews."

It's in the Hamas Charter that they will accept a 2-State solution along the lines of the 1967 borders, but it also more or less states that they still consider everything theirs, just as Israel does.

- And so, granted, it may be naive to think they would be truly satisfied with this and would not still try to fight for more later.

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full

>>20. Hamas believes that no part of the land of Palestine shall be compromised or conceded, irrespective of the causes, the circumstances and the pressures and no matter how long the occupation lasts. Hamas rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea. However, without compromising its rejection of the Zionist entity and without relinquishing any Palestinian rights, Hamas considers the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June 1967, with the return of the refugees and the displaced to their homes from which they were expelled, to be a formula of national consensus.<<

Even if it's not a perfect solution, it might be the best there is, Israel can't just ethnically cleanse the whole of Gaza so it can get it's hands on some prime real estate,
- not without having a large part of the global population turn strongly against it anyway

Both sides need to tone down their bs.
I don't see any other way, conflict forever with one side likely to take drastic measures to completely exterminate the other to remove the problem.

How else is all this likely to conclude?
Posted by Armchair Critic, Thursday, 22 February 2024 4:16:36 PM
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There are no 2 states because the so-called "Palestinians" never wanted a state of their own.

Most of them want to reunite with Syria, while some in Gaza prefer to be part of Egypt, if only they were allowed.

The idea of a "Palestinian state" is only a war tactic, not unlike the new "independent states" of Zaporizhzhia and Kherson: the next day after independence, its people would vote (freely or otherwise) to become part of Syria.

Apart from not having a real reason to have one, an independent state is not some rose-garden, but comes with the burden of accountability - why would "Palestinians" want such a headache?

Then on the other side there is the state of Israel: unlike "Palestine", that state already exists, but more Israelis, especially under Netanyahu's rule, are gradually realising that having a Jewish state has been an historical mistake.

All they (or their grandparents) wanted was to escape the fear of European pogroms as well as the incessant nagging of Rabbis, but now they discover that living in Israel does not free them from either. They were out for a free, peaceful and secular Hebrew state but instead they got a warring Jewish state under an aspiring dictator and gangs of fanatic Messianic Jews to serve as his SS.

Each side must sort out its internal issues first, but the leaders - Netanyahu and Sinwar, prefer an eternal war in order to prevent exactly that.

- You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink!
Posted by Yuyutsu, Thursday, 22 February 2024 5:29:51 PM
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There is no possibility of a two state solution.
It is about time that US, UK, France Australia etc etc etc realise it.
It is in fact blasphemy to suggest it.
Land once conquered by moslams remains Islamic land forever.
Notice in western countries eg France & Australia how once moslems
start buying houses in an area it never goes backward.
No moslem is allowed to sell land to a nonmoslem.
The moslems cannot even offer to buy Israel from the Jews. They own it already.

This is the reason the Middle East problem is unsolvable.
Try convincing our politicians of that !
Posted by Bezza, Thursday, 22 February 2024 10:09:12 PM
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Dear Bezza,

«Land once conquered by moslams remains Islamic land forever.»

That is one very extreme way of interpreting the Quran.

Firstly, not all Muslims share that interpretation.
Second, this applies only when Muslims are strong - when weak they can compromise.

Here is a different Muslim view:
http://www.alislam.org/faq/jihad-terrorism/
http://www.ahmadiyya-islam.org/questions/?topic%5B%5D=jews
Posted by Yuyutsu, Thursday, 22 February 2024 10:57:16 PM
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