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The Forum > General Discussion > Talk of Israel's 'Genocide' is Nonsense

Talk of Israel's 'Genocide' is Nonsense

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“Civilian suffering on a large scale is, by itself, no more a sign of genocide than it is of military disproportion”.

Article 2 of the 1948 UN convention prohibits only the INTENT to destroy a national, ethnical, racial or religious group as such.

Article 2 pertains to Hamas's intention to wipe out Jews for their race and religion. It does NOT pertain to Israel for defending itself.

WW2 - the one that defeated the actually genocidal Nazis, saw allied bombers killing around 350,000 German civilians. 70,000 French civilians were killed, 30,000 in the Normandy campaign alone.

In Italy, old men, women and children suffered “grievously” from allied bombing. Not deliberately, but to achieve victory over the ‘evil Axis’ which if not defeated, would have caused a lot more deaths, taken away the freedoms the free world was defending.

Contrary to the rules, Hamas DELIBERATELY targeted IsraelI civilians.

Israel's attack on Gaza was fully justified. In the process, civilians were killed, and are being killed, just as civilians always are in war; many of them by the cynical uses of civilian residences, hospitals and schools. Gazans are used as shields for terrorists.

As Nigel Biggar points out, lawyers (South African) will have to demonstrate that Israel inflicted civilian casualties in Gaza, not inadvertently as a side-effect of the process of destroying Hamas, but INTENTIONALLY, in order to “destroy the Palestinians AS SUCH. Acting like Hamas, in other words.

All killing is terrible. Wars are terrible, and only lunatics are war mongers. But, we live in a world dominated by the likes of “Hamas and Vladimir Putin”.

Israel is doing what it has to do to save itself from genocide. And it is not itself genocidal, in either a legal sense or an emotional one.

(Source: ‘The spoils of war, Israel's fight against Hamas is not genocide’. Nigel Biggar, 20/1/24).
Posted by ttbn, Thursday, 25 January 2024 11:05:09 AM
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http://nigelbiggar.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Biggar-2024-Spectator-018_spec_20.01.24.pdf
Posted by mhaze, Thursday, 25 January 2024 6:33:38 PM
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Thank you, Ttbn - I agree with Nigel Biggar.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Thursday, 25 January 2024 10:10:03 PM
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We've all heard the arguments that Israel's actions are
aimed at the destruction of Hamas, a terrorist organization
not the Palestinian people of Gaza. So it is not genocide.
The case brought up
against Israel at the International Court of Justice in
the Hague according to the New York Times will take
years. The New York Times reminds us that past cases of
genocide were only decided years after the events took place.
So this will also take time to decide.

For now what is worrying many people is the collective
punishment being inflicted on the Palestinians. The harrowing
details from Gaza go on and on. We're told this is not genocide
because Israel is conducting a military operation.
It may remind some of us of the excuse some German officials
used with _ I was only following orders."

The Times tells us that:

The crushing of the medical system, the slaughter of aid
workers, the killing of journalists, the war on homes, houses
of worship, and culture. The destruction of families. Nowhere
is safe in Gaza.

Most of the people are starving. The New York Times tells us
that around 70% of the dead are women and children. Israel
denies fuel, food, water, medical supplies, creating conditions
of death because of starvation and dehydration or to die quickly
because of bomb attacks or snipers.

The destruction of water pipes, sewerage, electricity networks,
the hoisting of Israeli flags over the wreckage.

The New York Times asks - "How has this been allowed to happen?
And it is happening now - and we are all watching."
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 26 January 2024 11:08:37 AM
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Dear Foxy,

It will be telling if the IJC decides to issue orders tomorrow in relation to Israel. If they do then it will give some idea of the validity of SA's claims.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Friday, 26 January 2024 2:04:02 PM
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Dear Foxy,

«We're told this is not genocide
because Israel is conducting a military operation.»

Which is the truth.

«It may remind some of us of the excuse some German officials
used with _ I was only following orders."»

Correct, and it may remind others of white rhinoceros eating strawberry milkshake:
how can anyone possibly cater for others' mental associations?

«For now what is worrying many people is the collective
punishment being inflicted on the Palestinians. The harrowing
details from Gaza go on and on.»

Indeed, so why does Hamas not stop it, which it could at any moment?

«Israel denies fuel, food, water, medical supplies»

Of that list, Israel only denies fuel (other than a little bit of fuel that goes to the sewerage plants), but it should:

Deny fuel - until the fuel goes to ordinary Gazans rather than for Hamas militants who steal it all.

Deny food - until its hostages receive adequate food.

Deny water - until its hostages receive adequate water.

Deny further medical supplies - until it is proven that its hostages received their medical needs.

«The destruction of water pipes, sewerage, electricity networks,
the hoisting of Israeli flags over the wreckage.»

Israel stopped the fighting in specified regions in order to allow water pipes to be repaired.
I am not informed about sewerage, though I am aware that Israel is concerned, because the same diseases affect its soldiers as well.
I am not informed about electricity networks, but what is their use when there is no electricity?
Flags are indeed unnecessary!
Posted by Yuyutsu, Friday, 26 January 2024 2:29:55 PM
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