THIS IS AMAZING... what ? Well..the depth of inight, the open-ness of hearts, the genuine inquiry and the overwhelming level of rich information that this thread has brought to the surface.

APOLOGIES to anyone who, in the middle of their posts, has addressed any question to me which I've missed. MJBP thanx for the prod about ET's..

Did anyone read Forest Gumps wealth of historical info there ? fantastic!

ET.. refer FG's info on Herod.. there isn't any specific information that I'm aware of regarding that massacre. Given that massacres were not an unusual thing in those days, it might have been eclipsed by something of more interest to nationalist-zealots in the history writing.

KatieO.. wonderful piece :)

Palimp.. Mcpherson.. "Is man the inventor of all gods"?

This question needs to be aproached with reason and logic.

"IF".... man is going to invent a god... reason says "He will invent one which will be an extension of natural human behavior and desires.

The invented god will:

"Fight wars to give you more territory and power"
"Give you plenty of good sex...lots of women, wives concubines and not lay down barriers to your physical fulfillment"
"Protect you against other gods and peoples"
"Give you plenty of moral latitude, not interfering with your own natural desires"

Now.. all I can say is that if you read the Old testament, and see what it really does say..you will find the God of the OT is not the god described above.

If He was..then the people of Israel would have not yeilded to the tempation of gravitating to the Baals and Ashtoreth's and various pagan gods.. with the associated practices such as infant sacrifice.

It's impossible to encompass the whole issue here.. but a good read of the OT in relaxed manner would probably help :) see you in 6 months.

CONCLUSION. Invented gods= Baal, Ashtoreth, Moloch,Dagon.Queen of heaven etc.

http://www.followtherabbi.com/Brix?pageID=1619

More straw-man arguments, Boaz? They're becoming highly predictable, but remain unconvincing.

>>"IF".... man is going to invent a god... reason says "He will invent one which will be an extension of natural human behavior and desires.
The invented god will:
"Fight wars to give you more territory and power"
"Give you plenty of good sex...lots of women, wives concubines and not lay down barriers to your physical fulfillment"
"Protect you against other gods and peoples"
"Give you plenty of moral latitude, not interfering with your own natural desires"<<

Your view of the incorrigible imperfection of humanity, Boaz, is coloured by something particularly nasty. I hate to think what that might be.

But surely, if you were to be logical, rather than polemical, gods would be invented in order to provide additional, external support to a society-based ethical platform that enables people to live harmoniously together. N'est-ce pas?

Tribal living needs some form of agreement on the laws that should be obeyed - it is the absence of those laws that generates the behaviours that you describe.

The creation of gods - along with all the abrogation of personal decision-making that such a move entails - is simply a support mechanism for people without sufficient internal resources to come to terms with their existence and the world around them, on their own.

It would make absolutely no sense whatsoever if a family, group, tribe, community or even nation were to invent the kind of religion you suggest. In fact, it would have the exact opposite effect, wouldn't it - it would divide the society into anarchic factions which would ultimately wipe each other out.

So, I'm with Palimpsest on this: all/any gods are the invention of man. And as such, it behoves no-one to denigrate the religion of another, since it is as much a part of them as their choice of morning newspaper.

p.s. Palimpsest, I have tried over-writing your posts, but without success.

Some quotes by famous people from between 250BC to modern times.

"I believe in God, only I spell it Nature."

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

“God - a being whose only definition is that he is beyond man's power to conceive."

"When we talk to God, it’s prayer. When God talks to us, it’s schizophrenia."

"No man ever believes that the Bible means what it says; he is always convinced that it says what he means."

"Men who believe absurdities will commit atrocities."

"Man is a marvellous curiosity ... he thinks he is the Creator's pet ... he even believes the Creator loves him; has a passion for him; sits up nights to admire him; yes and watch over him and keep him out of trouble. He prays to him and thinks He listens. Isn't it a quaint idea."

"Religion is a primitive form of philosophy, [the] attempt to offer a comprehensive view of reality."

“The difference between a religion and a delusion is the number of people who share it.”

“Religion: The manufacture and supply of easy answers to unanswerable questions.”

“Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color.”

In a post above I quoted my view Islam had more followers than Christ, not to defame just numbers.
A poster asked a question of me that seemed to miss understand my words I did not mean Catholics alone but all Christians.
I question the threats and controls in mans invented religions holy books all of them.
But not the underpinning good ways to live.
In fact apart from the self interest on show by every Gods close salesmen the holy books mostly prove man is indeed something to be proud of warts and all.
However I doubt it was any harder to write a holy book than it was to write the works of Shakespeare.
To claim every thing is Gods creation, every God is quaint but unproven.

Love that, Wobbles!!

I couldn't even begin to read each and every post for this one question. I was 'tired' after the first half dozen or so. What amazes me is the HUGE response such a question evokes, whether people wish to defend Christianity or not for starters. To some readers I'll be a back slider but for me, I am now in a more comfortable position, having made a life style choice rather than following some god or manmade person's cult. I have the light of freedom of choice. I feel religions with God's are all MANMADE. It is a faith/belief as there is no sure evidence otherwise. I feel religion is oppressive. I think this life of ours is about how we lead our life and not which God. So many cults exist out there and I include the main stream religions here if one defines a cult as 'a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc (dictionary.com).
I am here to say there are too many people trying to persuade another person one way or another to their way of thinking. I laugh about those who think they are doomed if they haven't spent 'x' amount of hours a week 'converting' people! Anyway, instead and surely, isn't it about a WAY OF LIFE. I learned that more travelling overseas. I visited Vietnam (now twice), and I don't see poor oppressed people so much as I see people very happy with 'their lot', a simple life with no neglected elderly (look at our society; we could learn a lot there!) and with a way of life that is amazing. I certainly didn't see gods worshipped as a distraction to getting on with day to day life. For the Vietnamese it is about how you treat another, how you conduct your life but more so it is the way of life that counts.