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The Forum > General Discussion > For Hamas the business model is Gazans' misery.

For Hamas the business model is Gazans' misery.

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Fingers-crossed that it will happen.

And that a two state solution is possible.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 24 January 2024 11:09:50 AM
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Dear Foxy,

«Are the Israelis really talking about the possibility
of ending their occupation?»

Israelis have been talking about it all the time since 1967, some in favour, others against - they hardly talk about anything else and in fact, they are ready to kill each other over this question!

«and will really end it
and leave the Palestinians be in the eastern side of
Jerusalem, the West Bank, and Gaza?»

I believe they will, provided:
1) The present war is ended, with all hostages returned.
2) Netanyahu and the Nazis in his government are kicked out.
3) The rest of the world demands it unanimously in no ambiguous terms and with appropriate sanctions for failing to do so.

Note that there is no "4) a negotiated agreement with the Palestinians": that condition is unnecessary and likely impossible!

«And that a two state solution is possible.»

Having a "Palestinian" state besides Israel has always been possible and still is, provided the "Palestinians" want to have a state - I wish they will.

As for whether that be a "solution", one must first be clear on the exact problem they like to solve: are you able to describe in brief what exactly you want to solve by that, Foxy?
Posted by Yuyutsu, Wednesday, 24 January 2024 1:28:47 PM
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Yuyutsu,

I see peace talks as the only way forward.
Surely the ultimate aim must be security for Israel
and self-determination for Palestinians.

Washington DC, London, and Europe should support a
regional summit involving Israel, Egypt, Saudi Arabia,
Iran, Jordon, Qatar, and the UAE. There is no stability
in the region unless all parties are included.

Also there should not be any taking of sides. Both sides
should be treated as equal - with no sellout of either
with a recognition that they both share a future together.
A two state solution is the only option worth having.

Israel must realize that they are not going to "destroy Hamas."
Not even by destroying Gaza. Hamas is a movement, an ideology
that Netanyahu's extremists helped to promote.

Failure by the powerful to end injustice and negotiate
a solution breeds extremism. We have Britain's history in
Northern Ireland where politics didn't work, violence filled
the vacuum.

Israel's right-wing rulers have failed to protect their own
citizens and by prosecuting the horror in Gaza they will only
endanger them even more.

Peace talks are the only way forward - being conducted by
all parties involved. With no sellout of any.

Miracles can happen - especially in that Holy Land. Right?
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 24 January 2024 2:40:24 PM
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Foxy,

Hamas has no intention of ever negotiating. Destroying Hamas is like destroying ISIS, ridding the world of one more poisonous group of murderers. Once all the Hamas militants are dead or imprisoned, then negotiations can begin.
Posted by shadowminister, Wednesday, 24 January 2024 3:16:23 PM
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Shadow Minister,

Failure by the Israel to end injustice and negotiate a
solution is only going to lead to more extremism.
Their actions will continue to promote movements and
ideology like Hamas. They are not going to "destroy Hamas,"
unless they end their injustices against the Palestinian people.

Israel has already failed to protect their own people,
unless they change their tactics - and continue the horror
in Gaza they will endanger their people even more.

They can't keep doing what they're doing and expect different
results.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 24 January 2024 4:46:48 PM
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Dear Foxy,

«I see peace talks as the only way forward.»

Talk, Talk, Talk, but what's the use when nobody would keep whatever they promise?

«Surely the ultimate aim must be security for Israel
and self-determination for Palestinians.»

And having two states could achieve that?

None of these aims is realistic.

Israel will forever have to rely heavily only on its own arms;
and if "Palestinians" had true self-determination then they wouldn't ask for independence but to rejoin Greater Syria, from which they were severed in WWI.

«There is no stability
in the region unless all parties are included.»

Correct, but there's no stability anyway there, never was, never will.

«Both sides
should be treated as equal»

Only "both"?
There are many more than two sides there!

«A two state solution is the only option worth having.»

Even if they keep terrorising and fighting, both between them and within each state?

«Israel must realize that they are not going to "destroy Hamas."»

Israel already knows that it cannot expect that permanently.
All Israel really mean is to temporarily disable Hamas, then gain a few years of quiet, and that could be possible, no higher expectations.

«Failure by the powerful to end injustice and negotiate
a solution breeds extremism.»

OK, but who is the powerful here?
Not necessarily the one with bigger bombs,
perhaps the one willing to make more sacrifices!

«Israel's right-wing rulers have failed to protect their own
citizens and by prosecuting the horror in Gaza they will only
endanger them even more.»

They certainly failed.
But they no longer control the IDF.

As popular army, the IDF is run by the citizens of Israel, who will not stop fighting until the hostages are returned - then it will stop and all the "rulers" can then do is wave their arms pretending it was their bidding.

«Miracles can happen - especially in that Holy Land. Right?»

Miracles do happen everywhere, when least expected. Expecting them is sinful.

And a "Holy Land"? The one I know is Naimisha Forest - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naimi%E1%B9%A3%C4%81ra%E1%B9%87ya_%28forest%29
Posted by Yuyutsu, Wednesday, 24 January 2024 4:48:45 PM
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