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The Forum > General Discussion > Should The Swastikas And Nazi Salutes Be Banned

Should The Swastikas And Nazi Salutes Be Banned

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Dear shadow minister,

The hatred for Jews inspired by Christianity made Christian holidays especially dangerous for Jews. One of the many examples follow:

https://theconversation.com/why-good-friday-was-dangerous-for-jews-in-the-middle-ages-and-how-that-changed-114896

During this time, a chant known as “the Reproaches” was sung. In this piece, the voice of God accused the Jewish people of faithlessness in rejecting Jesus as their Messiah and crucifying him instead.

Medieval Christians thus received the message on Good Friday that the Jews who lived in their midst were the enemies of Christians who killed their savior and needed to either convert to Christianity or face divine punishment.

Good Friday and medieval Jews

This language about Jews in the medieval Good Friday liturgy often carried over into physical violence toward local Jewish communities.
It was common for Jewish houses to be attacked with stones. Often these attacks were led by the clergy. David Nirenberg, a scholar of medieval Jewish-Christian relations, argues that this violence reenacted the violence of Jesus’ suffering and death.

Another scholar of this history, Lester Little, argues that the attack on the Jewish community was meant to be a revenge for the death of Jesus and a ritual act that reinforced the boundary between Jews and Christians.

Local clergy who encouraged and participated in the violence against Jews were in violation of the rules of their own church. Church law sought to protect Jews and required them to stay inside on Good Friday. Historically, the western church took responsibility for the safeguarding of Jewish communities because they viewed Jews as preservers of the Old Testament, and thus of the prophecies concerning Jesus. Official positions were, however, often ignored locally as many Christians sought to assert their power over the Jewish community.

Hitler said he “was doing the work of the church”, and many agreed with him. Hitler followed Christian tradition.
Posted by david f, Tuesday, 18 April 2023 9:09:04 AM
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Dear Shadow Minister,

Christian authors have connected the Jew hatred culminating in the Nazi Holocaust with Christianity. One example follows:

Christian Antisemitism
A History of Hate
William Nicholls

In Christian Antisemitism: A History of Hate, Professor William Nicholls, a former minister in the Anglican Church and the founder of the Department of Religious Studies at the University of British Columbia, presents his stunning research, stating that Christian teaching is primarily responsible for antisemitism. As Nicholls states, these conclusions 'can now be fully justified by the most up-to-date scholarship, Christian as well as Jewish.' Nicholls writes, 'Many Jewish writers have said, quite simply, that the Nazis chose the Jews as the target of their hate because two thousand years of Christian teaching had accustomed the world to do so. Few Christian historians and theologians have been sufficiently open to the painful truth to accept this explanation without considerable qualification. Nevertheless, it is correct.' Christian Antisemitism traces, over two millennia, the growing domination of Western culture by the Christian 'myth' (as Nicholls calls it) about the Jews, and shows how it still exerts a major influence even on the secularized 'post-Christian world.' Nicholls shows, through scrupulous research and documentation, that the myth of the Jews as Christ-killers has powered anti-Judaism and antisemitism throughout the centuries. Nicholls clearly illustrates that this myth is present in the New Testament and that 'it has not yet died under the impact of modern critical history.' Also included in this remarkable volume is Nicholls' research
Posted by david f, Tuesday, 18 April 2023 9:48:55 AM
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David,

What your "Christian" author completely neglects is that when Germany was losing the war, the leaders blamed the Jews as a convenient scapegoat for selling out the country which created a vicious version of antisemitism in Germany which had little to nothing to do with Christianity. That Jews were smart, hard-working and kept to themselves made them an easy target. That Muslims were and still are viciously antisemitic and still are has nothing to do with Christianity. That atheistic left-wingers are also heavily antisemitic also has nothing to do with Christianity.
Posted by shadowminister, Tuesday, 18 April 2023 12:58:00 PM
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Dear shadowminister,

He was a Christian author not a "Christian" author. The Nazis could blame the Jews and it was accepted because Christianity had fostered Jew hatred, and it was endemic in the Christian psyche. You, as many Christians do, deny that heritage. It exists whether you deny it or not.
Posted by david f, Tuesday, 18 April 2023 4:22:07 PM
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SM,

I see busy defending the Nazi's once more. Now how do you get your wizz-bang word genius to differentiate between "Christian" and Christian at 2.58pm NZ time on a Tuesday afternoon during work hours, another "team meeting" hummm. Maybe, a slack afternoon in the loo? hummmm.

As they say;

You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool PAUL1405!
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 18 April 2023 4:47:55 PM
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I wonder if David F thinks that the Hebrew Christian Sect destroyed the Roman Empire. You could say that Hebrew's were partially (or largely)responsible for the destruction of the Library at Alexandria in 260AD as part of the Hebrew Christian Sect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria

All civilizations use politics, propaganda, and spies to gain advantage. Even today I'm sure that Hebrew's are engaging in spycraft and espionage- just as everyone else is. The fact that Hebrew's exist today in spite of developing in one of the most contended locations on Earth on the Silk/ Spice Road shows that they have been successful at using the available tools- many of the civilizations of the region are dead. If Rome hadn't have destroyed Jerusalem perhaps the Islamic revolution would have- or maybe there would be a Hebrew superpower now in Judea the whole of the Middle East and Afghanistan.

Given Germany was the Holy Roman Empire until 1800's the descendant of Rome they were probably cautious about Hebrew politicing and spycraft.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roman_Empire

I wonder why Hebrew's didn't return to the Middle East after the fall of the Roman Empire- obviously Muslims didn't want Hebrew's on "their" land (from 800AD) either when they filled the vacuum left by Rome in about 400AD.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Islam

Hebrew's- writer Isaac Asimov (PsychoHistory) and Peter Turchin (Cliodynamics) talk about

"The statistical functions of unaffected(by acts of Psychological) large groups of people could predict the general flow of future events."

and

"The coevolutionary model of social complexity and warfare, based on the theoretical framework of cultural multilevel selection"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychohistory_(fictional)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliodynamics

The above theories are interesting in the context of understanding (and applying blame) the history of Christo-Judean (Judeo-Christian) relations- though perhaps bias in favour of the Hebrew author's theories
Posted by Canem Malum, Tuesday, 18 April 2023 5:20:49 PM
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