After clashes between Transgender rights protesters and Neo-Nazi's on Saturday in Melbourne there have been calls for the banning of the Nazi salute (Sieg Heil), the public display of the Nazi swastika is already outlawed in Victoria and some other states. Some are also calling for far right groups to be designated "terrorist organisations" and banned as well.

The violent clashes were sparked by British anti-transgender activist Posie Parker, also known as Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull, who was speaking at the demonstration outside parliament house as part of a national tour. Included in the group were anti-vaxxer's protesting along with some others unidentified persons wearing masks and dressed in black who gave the Nazi salute.

Should far right extremest groups be designated "terrorist organisations" and therefore outlawed?

I want the recently invented aboriginal flag banned; I find it offensive and meaningless. It won't be banned of course. Once you start banning symbols, there is no end it. Anyone who displays or waves a swastika is embarrassing themselves. Let them look silly. Banning only makes people more determined and more dangerous. You don't see them coming.

To be a terrorist you have to plan or commit terrorist acts. I find Nazi salutes are offensive, but they are not terrorist acts. Free speech is not free speech if speech or gestures that some may find offensive is not allowed.

I say ban the display of all political flags in australia except the flag that represents Australia and its people, which includes banning the gay flag. They should live their lives quietly, not overtly flaunting their sexual preference in public.

The aboriginal flag has been around only since 1971. It was proclaimed in 1995. It was designated as the 'Australian Aboriginal Flag' only in 2008.

Now it is seen flapping everywhere, and in anti-white Australia demonstrations. Some people would find this offensive, even though the ratbags waving it do no not represent all aboriginal Australians, any more than the flag itself represents all aboriginal Australians. How could it?

There was no aboriginal flag in the 60 thousand years or whatever up to 1788. There was no flag until an artist saw the opportunity of a few bob 180 odd years after white settlement; over 200 years before somebody thought it was a good idea, and 220 years before it was called the 'Australian Aboriginal Flag'. But which aboriginals?

Depending on the story-teller, there were hundreds of different tribes and languages of people who were never united - often warring - who roamed all over the place, with no fixed abode.

Aborigines were never united under a flag or anything else. They are not united today - just like other Australians; this has never been more obvious than now, with the divisive Voice nonsense.

Idiots waving a swastika around don't worry me. What worries me is anything but one national flag flying over all of us.

Hi there DAVID F...

Essentially you're right Sir. You must have formed the intent; (mens rea) Or, undertaken the criminal act (actus reus) in the company of others to prove conspiracy. It's no offence to simply harbour the ideology of a terrorist.

Any display of Nazi memorabilia, except the swastika, (from my understanding a Buddhist symbol), unless prohibited by State law is in itself, more in bad taste and insulting rather than anything illegal. Notwithstanding the horrendous genocide perpetrated by the nazi regime during the years 1938/45. Still, when it comes to anomalous behaviour, nothing would surprise me with humanity.

I hope you're keeping well Sir.

I think Paul's logic leads us inexorably to the conclusion that we must refuse any more support for Ukraine, because, afterall, they have real Nazis there, not just the neo type.

And while we're at it, let's ban the wearing of Chez t-shirts and Mao caps. Equity and diversity dictate we shouldn't concentrate on blue-eyed types alone.

BTW, I took a picture in my local bookstore. It had a copy of Mein Kampf. I propose that the state confiscate all its copies and burn them in a public place.

We can't take the risk that people might actually believe what they read and march along with what they see, because they are not as wise as those of us who frequent this forum, or run Australian state governments, and will be sure to be taken in.

GY,

"I think Paul's logic leads us inexorably to the conclusion that we must refuse any more support for Ukraine, because, afterall, they have real Nazis there, not just the neo type."

Where have I said in my opening post I support the banning of the Nazi salute in public or the public display of the Nazi swastika?

I did pose the question;

Should far right extremest groups be designated "terrorist organisations" and therefore outlawed?

I did not offer any agreement or disagreement with the question, so where is the "Paul's logic".

As for Ukrainians and Nazi's, I did read on this site that during WWII some Ukrainians were Nazi concentration camp guards. As for the political control in Ukraine today, I'm not sure if they are real Nazi's, Neo-Nazi's or something else. I have never siad anything about the Ukrainian government. I want an end to the war and peace restored., seems that's a bit too much for some forum warmongers

The Nazi swastika and the symbol used in eastern religions are oriented differently.

https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20210816-the-ancient-symbol-that-was-hijacked-by-evil

"Hindu cultural organisations and religious groups have tried to explain that the Nazis did not use the swastika, but a hooked cross. The Nazi swastika has the arms turned to 45 degrees giving a slant to the symbol, whereas the swastikas of Hinduism are presented with the base arm lying flat."

"Even members of the Jewish community have highlighted on several occasions the way in which the sign has been misused. "A distorted version of this sacred symbol was misappropriated by the Third Reich in Germany, and abused as an emblem under which heinous crimes were perpetrated against humanity, particularly the Jewish people. The participants recognise that this symbol is, and has been, sacred to Hindus for millennia before its misappropriation," said the declaration made at the Second Hindu Jewish Leadership Summit in Jerusalem held in February 2008."

In Syracuse, NY where I was born a man had the Hindu symbol bricked into his chimney. He had to have his chimney rebricked because the symbol was mistaken for the Nazi symbol.

Transgender rights protesters and Neo-Nazi's
I have great trouble to decide as to which of these two groups do the greater harm to society.
The latter would get stopped in a flash if they had parades like the other mob !

I'm in favour of these hard right thugs openly parading around the streets dressed in black uniforms with their swastikas, giving Nazi style 'sieg heil' salutes for all to see. These ratbags are closely aligned with the hard right political party One Nation, they both have a similar style philosophy, One Nation seeks the endorsement of centre right moderate voters, claiming they are an acceptable alternative to the mainstream. Its not uncommon for these Nazi ratbags to infiltrate a right leaning forum like this, and advise readers to vote One Nation and similar, at the next election!

Why would you ban Nazi expressions and symbols? Bans in Europe were an acknowledgement of the effectiveness of Nazi propaganda, with its effects persisting long after the regime had fallen. Australia has not had a Nazi dictatorship or control of its media by Nazi propagandists, so I don't really see the point of bans here.

Perhaps the most useful lesson of Nazism is the idiocy and debasement of hunting down and eliminating "non-conformists", be they critics of renewable energy or vaccination, or even supporters of Russia or George Pell. Thinking a person your enemy because they saw the world differently was very much the Nazi ethos.

The Weimar Republic, the pre-Nazi German government, had excellent anti-Nazi legislation. However, the legislation didn't work. Nazis put on trial, if found guilty, played the martyr. If found not guilty that proclaimed their correctness. Banning their symbolism was futile. One prevails over Nazism by finding something more appealing. In that time in Germany Nazism had the greatest appeal. They came to power in a democratic system because nothing was more appealing.

People who are fleecing a Nation dry are under the banner of Democracy are hailed as good & those who want to put a stop to the rot are deemed extreme Right !
Morons everywhere !

Paul, I read your imaginations - "One Nation seeks the endorsement of centre right moderate voters, claiming they are an acceptable alternative to the mainstream. Its not uncommon for these Nazi ratbags to infiltrate a right leaning forum like this, and advise readers to vote One Nation and similar, at the next election!"

Pauline last night denounced the supposed Nazi's appearing at the woman's rally against transgender in woman's sport.

One of the Lefty Liberal opposition leader's own has upset him as much if not more than the Nazis themselves. Christian conservative and new MP, Moira Deeming, was 'cavorting' with the men in black, according to dripping wet John Pessuto, and he his going to jolly well kick her out of the party.

On the other hand, Andrew's police ushered the Nazis to a spot where their saluting and and shouting were more prominent than they would have been if left alone.

A very peculiar place is Victoria.

Jose'

If a Neo-Nazi goes into vote and there are four candidates in the following order;

ONE NATION
LIBERAL
LABOR
GREEN

What order of preference would you think he would vote? Have an educated guess. Oh well, maybe he would just cast a DONKEY vote, same difference.

"Pauline last night denounced the supposed Nazi's appearing at the woman's rally against transgender in woman's sport."

I imagine she would, considering One Nation and Hanson try to project the farcical image of moderate respectability. You only need to take one look at Hanson's original associates, Ettridge and Oldfield to realise what is behind One Nation and its philosophy.

Well if this hypothetical NAZI had any historic understanding of the NSDAP, how they were the first environmentalist party to gain power, the first government to ban smoking, heavy pushers of veganism, and socialist to boot, he'd vote Green

Nah mhaze, if he was in the Liberal MP Moira Deeming electorate, she seems to like Nazi's, in fact she supports them, then he'd vote for her, she speaks their language. The 'National Socialist Network' are always looking for new members. Deeming was critical of what she called; "Extreme left counter protesters".."A group of conservative Liberal party members on Sunday threatened to quit the party if Deeming is expelled. Two of Dud Duttons Snnators voiced there support for Deeming, Jacinta Price and Claire Chandler, have issued statements offering Deeming their support.. Don't have to look too far to find the Nazi's!

Then there is the NSW Liberal Premier Nazi Dom, who is known to slip the old swastika are the arm on special occasions.

I tend to also agree with comment from david f:

"To be a terrorist you have to plan or commit terrorist acts. I find Nazi salutes are offensive, but they are not terrorist acts. Free speech is not free speech if speech or gestures that some may find offensive is not allowed."

I'm not a Neo-NAZI nor do I support them,
- But I look at it in the context of black-only groups are allowed.

Take the SBS for example.
They have a tv program called 'Living Black"
http://www.sbs.com.au/ondemand/news-series/living-black
- If there was a tv program called 'Living White' it would be deemed racist.

Where's the equality there?
"Black Lives Matters' is perfectly fine and supported.
'White Lives Matters' is deemed racist, opposed and would be banned.

So whites say 'All Lives Matters'
- And even that is attacked.

Where's the equality?
You can't scream support for equality, and not see the contradictions.

Paul,

Once again you post your opinion as facts no matter how idiotic or defamatory, they are. The neo nazis are as likely to be associated with One nation as the greens with ISIS.

The only people burning books or committing violence are the left-wing parties such as the greens and their violent wing Antifa. Parties that should be deemed terrorist organisations are those that commit terrorist acts not just because you don't like them.

It is conservatives that don't consider the Aus population morons that can't make up their minds for themselves. Free speech is not only to share ideas but to expose extremists as extremists.

Two were arrested when a mob supporting One Nation's NSW Leader Mark Latham, according to some accounts, men again from a far right group, surrounded a small number of LGBTQI+ protesters outside a church where Latham was speaking. The protesters claim; "they were "attacked" and pelted with rocks and bottles by hundreds of men". If true, this is the kind of thugs, supporters of One Nation on this forum believe are deserving of peoples votes.

SM

Posie Parker (Kellie-Jay Keen) is said to have links with neo-Nazi groups in Britain and the US. Parker has defended Victorian Liberal MP Moira Deeming who spoke at her rally outside Melbourne's Parliament House on Saturday. It was at this rally that Parker and therefore Deeming supporters gave the Nazi salute. If you lie down with dogs you get fleas. A vote for One Nation is ultimately a vote for the Liberal Party, as One Nation directs preference to the Liberals.

Nazis in shorts a t-shirts. Certainly not dressed for success.

" A vote for One Nation is ultimately a vote for the Liberal Party, as One Nation directs preference to the Liberals."

Paul claims to have been involved in politics for decades yet utterly misunderstands how preferential voting works. Well, it is Paul!!

Parties can suggest how their supporters direct preferences but they can't determine it. Its perfectly possible to vote say, One Nation and then direct your preference away from the Libs. But it seems this goes over the heads of many. (also in NSW you can 'exhaust' your preferences by not directing them to anyone other than your first preference).

Moira Deeming spoke at a rally called "Let Women Speak". A bunch of men turned up, uninvited and unwanted and paraded around down Heil Hitler salutes. The women at the rally immediately and unequivocally rejected and criticised these interlopers. Now a bunch of men have decided that rather than letting the women speak they are going to silence Deeming by kicking her out of the party. They might be the Liberal Party but they definitely aren't a liberal party.

BTW, the police at the rally were able to keep large numbers of the QWERTY++ crowd separated from the women's rally but decided to let the Black Shirts through. Smell a rat? Only if you've got two brain cells to rub together

mhaze,

You have a dopes understanding of the reality.

"Parties can suggest how their supporters direct preferences but they can't determine it." That is correct, ONE NATION with their HTV's invariably SUGGEST their supporters direct their preferences to the LIBERAL PARTY.

I said; "One Nation is ultimately a vote for the Liberal Party, as One Nation directs preference to the Liberals", on their HTV's. Well, when "scrutineering" votes on election nights I have observed ON votes, the majority when distributed end up in the Liberal pile. If I was a Labor candidate in a close contest I'd be worried if I was relying on ON preferences to get me over the line.

Yes, NSW for some years has had optional preferential voting.

"uninvited and unwanted" so you say mhaze, you don't know that, you are saying so to defend Deeming someone alerted the Nazi's to the rally. BTW hasn't Deeming got form concerning far right extremism. Didn't Guy have to defend her on that score before the last state election?

You say; "They might be the Liberal Party but they definitely aren't a liberal party." You have said the National Socialists are Socialists, just like those Liberals who are not liberal, they may use the word Socialists, but I say they are definitely not socialists

The police let the amateur Nazis through. Well, the Andrews police acted like Nazis during the Covid protests.

As for Moira Deeming: the Liberal Party would be doing her a favour if they expelled her. She would have four years as an independent to build voter support. And, who the hell wants to be in the Liberal Party these days! The parties thinking and acting like the Liberals used to would be glad to have her, I would think. One Nation, Liberal Democrats, Family First.

ttbn,

One Nation, Liberal Democrats, Family First. you left off Palmer's UAP then you'd have all 4 of the far right parties in Australia. Deeping -independent - how would she be "independent", these far right authoritarians don't allow for independent thinking.

BTW, I read some time back that the High Court has ordered the so called Liberal Democrats to change their name, as they are neither liberal or democratic.

Kirsty O’Sullivan a LDP staffer alleged there was corruption and misuse of party funds, sounds like your kinda party!

Well that wasn't to hard. Paul's gone from "A vote for One Nation is ultimately a vote for the Liberal Party", ( a patently false assertion) to his now much more accurate observation that most One Nation preferences go to the Libs. Not the same thing at all and so obvious that even the normally clueless Paul seems to understand it.

BTW most Green preferences go to the ALP so, according to Paul that means that a vote for the Greens is a vote for the ALP.

But Paul is capable of learning. For example he has learned from SR, where you start a post with some ad hom and then proceed to show that the ad hom was rubbish. Here he tells me that ! "have a dopes understanding of the reality" and then in the very next paragraph (the very NEXT paragraph) admits that "[what you wrote]That is correct". Logic and Paul are not friends.

Another of Paul's illogical assertions "just like those Liberals who are not liberal, [National Socialists] may use the word Socialists, but I say they are definitely not socialists"

The Vic Liberals aren't liberally because they act illiberally. The NSDAP were socialist because they acted socialistically. I won't explain further - Paul wouldn't follow.

1405

You don't have to prove that you are a twit all the time. We have always known it. The parties are 'far right' to you only because the Greens are far left - a modern version of communism.

That's why I called him OLO's village idiot.

Oh dear,

Three of the forum Trumpsters, Moe, Larry and Curly, have nothing else to do but try and through insults at me. One fool joined a far right political party and got ripped off, another believes a mass murderer was only retaliating, and the other fool thinks he catches me out, then puts on the smarty pants school boy act. This trio of numbskulls wouldn't have a brain between them.

that's throw insults!

The Lesbian and Gay communities should live quietly and not protest at events if they want to keep their dignity. All other alphabet people should be banned in society.

How did the homosexuals - male and female - get lumbered with the alphabetics in the first place is the big question. A quirk of nature is one thing; but the idea that there are more than two sexes - or that a person can change his or her sex - is a ridiculous lie. No matter how much they mutilate their bodies, their sex doesn't change. Transgenderism is on a par with the other lie that humans can control the climate.

When others are no harm to oneself, or society in general, its only an old fart busybody who would stick his nose into such matters. Getting all worked up about something that he has no control over or affects him at all. I wouldn't give a toss if the same old fart wanted everyone to call him Mr kadiddlehopper! So what!

Nice to see our very own parliamentary fascists Hanson and Roberts, buddying up to the imported accused Nazi Posi Parker. There were a couple of black shirts on hand to throw poor old Lidia Thorpe to the turf, Lida did manage to crawl away though, before being carted off to you know where.

AND, who said One Nation couldn't rely on the NAZI vote?

Paulnazi,

I see that the Nazi Liedia Thorpe tried to use violence to stop someone speaking and got booted out on her arse.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fr5BgcpakAEQ0pW?format=jpg&name=small

SM,

"I see that the Nazi Liedia Thorpe tried to use violence to stop someone speaking and got booted out on her arse."

Ms Thorpe should consider herself lucky. In your ideal world the black shirts would have carted her off to the nearest concentration camp.

p/s Have you been able to catch any of Posi Parker's speeches? Could be your Wednesday nights entertainment down in the "bunker". I suppose one gets sick and tired of listening to Fuhrer speeches over and over, no matter how riveting they are. Besides they're in German, maybe not your native language.

As far as I know there are no Nazis in our discussion group, but there is a lot of rhetoric implying that someone disagrees is a Nazi. That sort of business serves no good purpose and lowers the level of discussion.

Hi David,

Sage advice, I take no offence at being called Paulnazi. moron, village idiot fwit etc as is often the case on this forum. What offends me is a poster who claims 51 innocent men, women and children murdered in Christchurch NZ was merely an act "retaliation" on the perpetrators part. Or another poster who suggested an unprovoked nuclear attack on Pakistan is in order, for no other reason than it is a nuclear country and Muslim, or the same poster who believes the Australian Navy should have "opened up" with 50mm rounds on defenceless women and children on unarmed refugee boats. I don't know if such posters are black shirted card carrying Nazi's or no, but I find those statements far more offensive than being called a Paulnazi.

david f calls out the practice of some people calling those who disagree with them 'Nazis', and the very poster who calls people Nazis at every opportunity says, "Sage advice".

1405 is totally lacking in self-awareness, common sense, and the positive traits of most humans, irrespective of their personal beliefs.

ttbn,

I am at liberty to refer to those, you included, who refer to me as a Marxist, Communist etc, as whatever. You recently called me a MORON, fwit etc so get off your high horse.

The term "sage advice" can also be taken as sarcasm. You throw insult after insult at a female poster here, whenever the opportunity permits.

Our moronic NZ cousins assaulted Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull and poured tomato sauce over her hair. And that's without Ardern!

Still, who are we to talk about morons when the moronic leader of the moronic Victorian Liberals wants to expel one of his own, Moira Deeming, because moronic VicPol aided a bunch of other morons in black t-shirts and shorts to interfere with a rally for women's rights.

“We’re going to say ‘hello boys’,” said Keen-Minshull, whatever her name is, telling a crowd in Melbourne last Saturday.She was referring to around two dozen men dressed in black. They carried a huge banner with the words “Destroy Paedo Freaks” and threw Nazi salutes at trans supporters protesting her rally. After the rally, Keen-Minshull claimed in a video posted on YouTube that the men who gave Nazi salutes might not have been neo-Nazis. Guardian Australia.

Yawn.

You're right DAVID F provided the words or symbols are not calculated to incite violence. Clearly, too many folk, the overt waving of a swastika flag or its likeness, would be considered both offensive and inciteful. And it has nothing remotely to do with free speech. To engage in such behaviour would take the perpetrator perilous close to being pinched.

Dear davidf,

I too hate Illinois Nazi's and while I have a lot of respect for David Goldberger this is a different country.

The way we do universal healthcare is a case in point. We understand what it takes to try and bring everybody along, and even if we have become a lot less effective at it recognise the benefit of social coherence.

I think we balance these things better than the US where threads can quite easily be drawn from toxic individualism to mass shootings in schools.

Absolute free speech and respect of social coherence will always be fraught and likely unattainable.

That is not to say our defamation laws need desperate reform. They do. And I get that banning Nazi salutes runs is a risk of driving fascists underground to an extent.

But there are few things as symbolic of evil as Nazis and all they stood for. Perhaps removing it as a rallying point for our modern fascists is something many Australians would see as the right thing to do. I would probably agree.

Liedia Thorpe herself, marched into parliament with her arm out in a nazi salute, or close enough. It had the same aggressive meaning.
BLM use the same salute. Ban that as well.its a racial power violence sign the same as the Nazi salute.

Also most women are against penises in women's changing areas. Why? Because they are mothers and grandmothers who worry about attackers hiding in toilets even before you factor in the issue of transgender people.

Lesbians have used woman's toilets forever but there has never been any issues and women are accepting of it because there is no penis on lesbians. Transgender is a different issue.

I think they should have their own toilets and dressing rooms.
Don't push their issues onto women. Women need safety in their private spaces, and big men wearing wigs is hard to tell if they are legitimately female in their mind, or if they are more male in their minds with a penis, in women's change rooms.
That is the dilemma and it is not an issue that should be forced onto
straight women to solve.
They should definitely not compete in women's sports.
Again, why not have transgender sports teams who play against each other.

SR,

The problem with banning the swastika is that before it became associated with the Nazis it was a symbol used in several religions including Hinduism, Buddhism, Shinto and possibly a few more.

How do we know these face-covered NAZI's weren't government provocateurs?
This is for Paul1405 re US Capitol riots on Jan 6

Prosecutor Admits DC Police Officers Acted as Provocateurs at US Capitol on Jan. 6
http://www.theepochtimes.com/prosecutor-admits-dc-police-officers-acted-as-provocateurs-at-us-capitol-on-jan-6_5148808.html

>>A federal prosecutor admitted in court papers that three D.C. Metropolitan Police Department undercover officers acted as provocateurs at the northwest steps of the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021.

The defendant is not entitled to ‘undesignate’ these videos to share them with unlimited third parties,” said Assistant U.S. Attorney Kelly Moran. “His desire to try his case in the media rather than in a court of law is illegitimate, and the government has met its burden to show the necessity of the protective order.

Videos long hidden under court seal have become a major topic, especially with prosecutors disclosing in a number of high-profile Jan. 6 cases the involvement of multiple FBI informants.

The officer clearly incited that area, and we still don’t have video from all other undercover MPD,” Pope told The Epoch Times. “And as the numerous informants in the Proud Boys trial demonstrates, we are only just beginning to scratch the surface on FBI involvement.

Officer 1 repeatedly joined in chants of “Drain the swamp!” and “Our house! Our house! Our house!”

A short time later, Officer 1 joined the crowd in a “USA!” chant, repeating the phrase five times.

At the foot of the northwest stairs, someone leaned part of a bicycle rack against the balustrade. As a protester climbed up the makeshift ladder, Officer 1 shouted, “C’mon, man, let’s go! Leave that sh^t.”

Officer 1 got help from a protester climbing onto the balustrade of the steps. Then, surveying the people moving up the staircase, he shouted, “C’mon, go, go, go!”

Officer 1 encouraged the crowd to move up the stairs with repeated shouts, “Keep going! Keep going!” and “Keep going, keep going, come on!”<<

Nazi Dom down in New South Wales put on the old Hitler clobber and goosestepped around the place, and it didn't affect his electoral chances. On Saturday he was still as popular as ever! "Winners Are Grinners".

I'm not sure if we are able to discuss this topic freely due to OLO’s dependence on Google and their Hebrew leadership in Larry Page, Sergey Brin- similarly Facebook- however since the question was asked ...

In context of recent incident called by the media as the Melbourne Anti-Trans Rally where a group of claimed neo-Nazi protesters showed a sign "stop pedo freaks" and gave a Roman Salute- and claimed they were supporting vulnerable Australian children against sexual grooming through badly considered school programs. There have been claims that the Roman Salute should be banned in line with the recent Victorian Labor Government banning of the swastika.

Perhaps it would be helpful to look at why the "neo-Nazi's" might have acted as they did- and the history of opposition of different groups to principles that Nazi's or Hitler may have believed (Communists, Hebrews, others).

My understanding of the so called neo-Nazi's/ neo-Hilterian's is that they see Hitler as the main person that "served" explicitly and decisively in the name of ethno-Germanic people- I suppose they consider Hitler as the German "King David" though they wouldn't frame it that way.

Myself I don't know enough about this controversial part of history. Of course Hebrew's for example have a large vested interest in it- and claim that everyone should have a vested interest in it. The Hebrew's themselves had difficulties on a few levels due to claims of non-integration and insurrection by many host societies after the sacking of Jerusalem/ Judea by the Roman's after 70AD. The Hebrew's seem to have lived on the edge of the Slavic? migration into Europe at the interface between Germanic-Nordic people. You could say that Hebrew's occupied areas on the edge of Europe. It's interesting that the German's were hosts to the Holy Roman Empire for many years and they were the one's that considered that the Hebrew's were a problem for German identity.

In a sense the adventures of Alexander The Great (and The 300) I suppose could be considered as a European attempt to protect themselves from invading Middle Eastern tribes.

There are claims that Hebrew's were involved with Communism and certainly a number were. As many powerful groups are- it is claimed that Hebrew's have been involved in intelligence operations to subvert Europe and the West for at least 150 years and possibly going back as far as the Roman conquest of Judea- of course all cultures need to be aware of potential threats and opportunities.

Germany had territory north to Lithuania before the Treaty Of Versailles after World War One. I understand that Hitler was concerned about the migration patterns of Slavic peoples into Europe over the last two thousand five hundred years in various stages- for example during the Greek and Mongol empires.

In the 1890's Hebrew's had differing percentages of the populations of European nations according to my readings- Germany had one of the larger populations and France had one of the lower.

Of course Christian's despite their Judeo-Christian roots have always had conflict with Hebrew's. You could say that the Roman Empire the European Empire was destroyed by the Christian Hebrew Sect.

Perhaps Hitler saw Hebrews as trying to destroy the vestiges of the Roman Empire in the Catholic Christian world due to their failures to destroy Europe through the Judeo-Christian experiment.

Martin Luther founder of the Christian Protestant movement is also claimed to be anti-Hebrew due to his letter to a Rabi refusing to support courting the ruling duke due to suspicion of Hebrew insertionism (after his initial support of the Hebrew community).

Shakespeare is also considered to be anti-Women (Taming of the Shrew) and anti-Semitic (The Merchant Of Venice) perhaps. Probably Dickens (Oliver) and Harry Potter's- J.K.Rowling too.

Walt Disney is apparently considered as anti-Hebrew- apparently there is a claim that a Hebrew animator tried to steal the character Mickey Mouse-

Henry Ford and Thomas Edison are also claimed to be anti-Hebrew.

The British exiled the Hebrew community at various times over thousands of years as did many other kingdoms.

Nietzsche opined in Genealogy of Moral's that the Roman Knightly Code was replaced in a Slave Revolt by the Hebrew Priestly Code. Apparently Nietzsche's sister approached Hitler with Nietzsche's philosophy after his death. Hitler seems to have believed that ideas needed to be kept purely ethno-Germanic and authentic perhaps in line with existentialism. It seems that Hitler started with an analysis of various philosophical questions.

Anyway Germano-Nordic peoples fair complexion is recessive so would take more effort to retain it's identity. Some on Tic Toc claim they could destroy blue eyed blonds in one generation- but they don't seem to see this as genocide.

The British seemingly were the main ones to commit to opposing Hitler's policies in spite of their Germanic-Nordic relatedness- and favored a humane solution to Hebrew nationlessness- and paid heavily for their commitment- though they probably didn't know about Hitlers claimed actions against the Hebrews. Perhaps Hebrew's in the US could have supported Britain more after the war. Now British are claimed as one of the most racist cultures on Earth by some- this could be part of a success bias- yet everyone seems to want to settle in the Anglo-Sphere- perhaps hoping to gain power through insertionism rather than creating their own power.

Hebrew's have be said to come to hold disproportionate power in a number of western institutions such as media (more than half of the senior executives at the largest Hollywood movie businesses), Manhattan Project (mostly Hebrew), universities (), law (Ginsberg?), psychology (Freud, Anna Freud, Bernay's, Adler, others), Tech (Google, Facebook, Steve Wozniak- Apple, Stallman- Free Software Foundation), Banking (historically Rothchild banking dynasty). This is concerning if you believe that a culture needs to rule itself. Perhaps some of the actions of US foreign policy could be attributed to disproportionate Hebrew influence in the US foreign policy infrastructure (Kissinger, Wolfowitz, others)

Hebrew's seem to hate Nazi/ Hitlerian ideology and people as much as Nazi's hate Hebrew's and can't seem to see any redeeming features- they seem to see Nazi's everywhere. The Hebrew's claim that Nazi's killed 6 million Hebrew's in gas chambers and use this to justify the destruction of Nazi ideology, culture, people to correct or get "Hebrew Revenge" for claimed crimes by Nazi's during ten years in the 1930's and 1940's. Not much seems to be talked about by Hebrew's about any Communist crimes which are still ongoing 100 years later despite the huge numbers of killings due to ideological bigotry.

Maybe revenge is justified in these circumstances maybe not- and how far should it go- in a sense law can be a form of revenge- the Nazi's actions could be said a form of revenge too- I suppose. I'm suspicious of Locke Liberal Democracy and the objectivity of his "government gang". But as Churchill says there are worse.

Little is mentioned of other "crimes" against Hebrew's in Spain, Russia (1890's) in other era's.

Much modern terminology defining "the bad" (Nazi's) and "the good" (Hebrew's) seems to have come out of the period following WWII.

Feminist's argue that if Male's get paid more than Female's then the system is prejudiced (in spite of the fact that Male's do more hours)- in a similar way it could be argued that if Hebrew's hold powerful positions disproportionate with their representation then the system is prejudiced in their favour- especially given that the infrastructure of the US was created by ethnically British investments. Many of the issues of the US Civil War were badly resolved- perhaps Lincoln realised this before his assassination.

If you believe in the concept of individual property by extension you should believe in cultural property and inheritance- as well as cultural appropriation.

David F commented on the use of the pejorative- Nazi or Fascist to discredit those the communist left disagree with.
Programmer Paul Graham talks about the Hierarchy Of Disagreement-
http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html
There is also mention of "reductio ad hitlerum" and "ad hitlerum" in reference to "ad hominem"

Communists also use the terms Nazi and Fascist a fair bit to discredit those that disagree- perhaps neo-Hitlerian's try to "own the term Nazi" with a view to reframing it- in a similar way to other perjoratives and concepts have been used for and against other movements.

It's interesting that many so called Classical Fascist principle were the same as those promoted by Liberals and Socialists- such as the 8 hour day, equal rights for Men and Women, solidarity, etc. In fact The Fasci- Fascist symbol has been used in law contexts for hundreds if not thousands of years- and is featured in one of Aesop's Fables.

Everyone has good and bad in them. Where ones rights end the others don't begin.

At least the neo-Nazi's or Roman Saluter's at the Melbourne rally believe they are supporting vulnerable Australian children against sexual grooming through badly considered school programs in their sign "stop pedo freaks".

Sexual education was up to the parents- and perhaps should remain so

CM,

You seem to like branding people "communists" you have labelled myself as such on this forum, when I know I am no such thing, you use the term a fair bit here, in fact the majority of your posts contain disparaging
remarks about communists all the time. Communism seems to have its good points, as well as bad, just like all the other isms.

Hitler was a National Socialist.

He came from the left and despite his pro German Nationalism, considered himself to be a left wing Socialist in
his books.

The virtuous left, would have people believe a socialist lefty can't be
a racist nationalist. This is because their pretend virtue signalling
implys that they are the ones who care about victim groups and the poor. This being a ploy to gain the votes of these groups.

These caring leftist revolutionaries, cared not a jot for the people they promised to raise out of poverty once the revolution was won and they got their hands on the key to the treasury.

They lived in spendid luxury and palaces, while the people were as poor as before,and they murdered millions of people who spoke out about it. Human nature is wanting to be top dog.
The left are more dangerous because they are harder to spot because of their seeming virtue.

Hi CHERFUL

Hitler was a National Socialist, Hitler was an extremists. For me there is no left and right, only moderates through to extremes, in the context as the society then exists. If you understand the 'Horseshoe Principle' then you know those deemed to be of the extreme right, and extreme left, have very similar aims, how they apply the principles of their ideology, and the practical way they exert control over society is also similar. For me Hitler and Stalin, although considered politically opposed, were interchangeable.

Paul,

you claim that "communism has its good points and bad points", and that Hitler and Stalin were interchangeable and in doing so equate Nazis with communists.

The only good point of communism was that it brings the tyrannical communist countries to their knees economically.

SM,

On his return from a two week study tour and fact finding mission to NAZI Germany in 1938 to examine the benefits of National Socialism, 'Pig Iron' Bob Menzies the founder of the LIBERAL PARTY was singing the praises of Adolf Hitler and the wonderful achievements made under National Socialism. Questioned about the treatment of Jews, 'Pig Iron' was to say; "Well, after all they are only Jews!" The founder of the LIBERAL PARTY also believed National Socialism had its good points as well, despite it being responsible for the deaths of 60 million people. Why do you think Menzies was a-holed from office so quickly once war broke out, he was a NAZI sympathiser and a sell out to the Japanese, that's why! Little Johnny Howard was a disciple of Pig Iron's, having the same philosophy as the old goat, Dutton now follows the philosophy of another old goat Little Johnny Howard.

LIBERALS like to dress up in NAZI uniforms and attend NAZI style parties, look at Nazi Dom in NSW, the voters a-holded him as well!

Paul,

You lie so often that I don't believe you. I think that you once again are lying about Menzies.

The greens are fascinated with Nazis and dress up as Nazis as a fetish.

SM,

Nah, Nazi Dom admitted his crime. Are you claiming 'Pig Iron' Bob didn't spend 2 weeks in Nazi Germany in 1938. He was most upset that he wasn't granted an audience with his Fuhrer. You have no evidence that; "greens are fascinated with Nazis and dress up as Nazis as a fetish" You are lying again.

Pauliar,

You lied about what Menzies said about the Jews. That makes you a liar and racist.

Also, you have no evidence that Liberals dress up as Nazis other than the one case. I have two instances in that Greens were convicted paedophiles and using your logic I could claim that all Greens are.

SM,

Where did I say ALL Liberals were Nazi's, you say; "you have no evidence that Liberals dress up as Nazis" Yes I do, unless you are saying Dom is not a Liberal, there is the evidence. As for 'Pig Iron' Bob, on his return from Nazi Germany in 1938 he was very off handed about Jewish persecution, preferring to trumpet Hitlers achievements under National Socialism. Of course after the events of 39-45 Menzies changed his tune completely.

SM,

As usual, you are again trying to insult ones intelligence. The LIBERAL PARTY has spent the past 80 years trying to "sanitise and deodorise" the words, deeds and memory of their great hero and founder 'Pig Iron' Bob Menzies. But history cannot be denied, from Menzies support of the war in 1914-18 to his cowardice in not enlisting in that war. Menzies was able to safely tuck himself away in university and the law. In the 1930's Menzies was a well known admirer of Hitler and National Socialism, by the 1940's Menzies made himself an appeaser of the Japanese and their aggression. Menzies was anti-worker, but pro monarchy , he believed Australia should have a pool of unemployed, 10% was his figure, to control the demands of the "working class". He viewed women (other than the Queen of England) as a commodity to be exploited and ones who should know their place in a mans world. As for Aboriginals, Menzies was content to see them marginalised and persecuted under his 'White Australia Policy'.

Paul,

And I didn't say that all greens are paedophiles, even though some were convicted of paedophilia. Also, you used the collective Liberals, not some liberals so don't try and weasel out of your lie.

Also, you and the other historical ignoramuses forget that Hitler and the Nazi party in a few short years took Germany which was nearly bankrupt and near civil war to a functioning and growing economy long before the dark side of national socialism became obvious. Most people that visited came away impressed. That does not make them Nazis or Nazi admirers. You are a communist admirer, and they were even worse than the Nazis.

So please stop lying.

Dear Shadowminister,

You wrote:

"Also, you and the other historical ignoramuses forget that Hitler and the Nazi party in a few short years took Germany which was nearly bankrupt and near civil war to a functioning and growing economy long before the dark side of national socialism became obvious."

The dark side of Nazism was obvious from the beginning. Hitler wrote of his hatreds in Main Kampf in 1923, and his book was widely circulated. Many chose to ignore those hatreds or shared them. Winston Churchill was not a historical ignoramus when he warned about the dangers of Nazism. Fortunately, he was taken into the British government and organized the resistance. The growth of the German economy was largely fueled by preparation for war.

SM,

As a typical TCS you're probably saying Winston Who? Yea, a man of letters alright, your degree came off the back of a 'Cornflakes' packet.
I still get a chuckle from your 'Cry Baby' Porter claims, "As a man of letter, my pontificated legal opinion is Mr Porter has nothing to worry about, he is in for $10 million plus in compensation, a grovelling apology from the ABC, and 100 ABC staff sacked to pay for it all." AND YOU also claimed Porter would be the next Prime Minister, what a clown!

Pauliar,

Once again you are a LIAR AND A FRAUD. You know very well I did not say those things.

Is it true that you are not allowed near schools?

David,

You are oversimplifying the economics of the time. Like the "new deal" in the US, the nazis implemented public works programs that eliminated the 30% unemployment and part of that was the arms build-up.

As for the nazis' dark side, the vast majority of people and politicians had no idea of the scope until the liberation of the concentration camps. Even then the horrors of the nazis were put in the shade by the horrors of the Russian communists.

Stormy,

Any chance of another one of your learned legal opinions on YOUR man Trump? I only want it so I can ridicule you afterwards when you get it totally wrong, as you did with both the 'Cry Baby' Porter-Potty and 'Beat Up' Bolt cases. YOU TCS!

BTW, as a two bob hack lawyer, I see you like to pontificate on Constitutional Law. WOW. You TCS!

Village idiot,

I guess that your incompetence in engineering and your lies led to your failure and bankruptcy. Just as your LIES and incompetence here have earned you the title of VILLAGE IDIOT.

Is it true that you are not allowed near schools?

It is obvious Paul reads Communist fiction of history and it is evident in his fictitious rants.

ShadowMinister said- Even then the horrors of the nazis were put in the shade by the horrors of the Russian communists.

Answer- And the Russian communists and their "20M dead for equality" were put in the shade by the horrors of the 60M dead under Maoism and their four pillars policy.

Solzhenitsyn apparently said that psychopaths from prisoner ranks were put in positions of power in the Gulags to break down the psychology of the prisoners. Apparently a type of community shock troops to break down the outspoken thinking minority- does it remind you of anything- wokeism perhaps. These psychopaths couldn't survive on their own in polite society- but when supported by Marxist tactics and infrastructure are an effective form of insurrection.

http://www.rbth.com/history/331201-ussr-gulag-camps
http://stars.library.ucf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1609&context=honorstheses

http://www.hudson.org/national-security-defense/100-years-of-communism-and-100-million-dead

"The term “political correctness” has its origin in the assumption that socialism, a system of collective ownership, was virtuous in itself, without need to evaluate its operations in light of transcendent moral criteria."

http://www.hudson.org/experts/385-max-singer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_Kahn
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_M._Ruebhausen

The initial comment on this thread included the following- "After clashes between Transgender rights protesters and Neo-Nazi's on Saturday in Melbourne there have been calls for the banning of the Nazi salute (Sieg Heil), the public display of the Nazi swastika is already outlawed in Victoria and some other states. Some are also calling for far right groups to be designated "terrorist organisations" and banned as well."

Answer- If Communist/ Leftist/ Transgender groups didn't have counter protests then there probably wouldn't be any "clashes"- perhaps counter protests should be banned. As to banning what the left label "far right" groups- anything right of the suspected criminal Trotsky is considered "far right" by some.

Anyway the Roman Saluters/ Neo- Nazi's perhaps don't consider themselves as "far right" but more as traditionalist. Many of their views were considered mainstream in the recent past.

But by labelling them as "far right" most people feel the safest course of action is to take the middle road- the left by presenting traditionalists as extreme are tricking normal hard working people into acting against their own self interest.

As Nietzsche said "politics is for the rich and the idle".
But these time poor average dedicated hard working people are the life of the nation

Anglo-British people shouldn't feel guilty for being alive- for working together to store food for the winter- for creating infrastructure for common benefit- and profiting from it- for having greatness.

CM,

If not an active member, your posts very much support those extremist views, calling them, once mainstream. Nonsense about Trotsky, prattle about Anglo-British people, reinforces that opinion. Previously you have, without evidence, or an admission from me, labelled me a Communist, do you still hold that view. The majority of your posts make reference to communists and/or communism, seems you are fixated about it, the old, "reds under the beds", nonsense. I've asked you to identify these "communists" subverting the nation, all I get from you is silence, you don't know of any, do you, they only exist in your minds eye, is that correct?

As I suspect, the Kudos Kid and his twilight world of unnamed communist bogymen, he can't name one supposed person of influence in Australia who could remotely resemble a "communist". Simply delusional, and he attracts others of the same ilk to agree with him. Amazing!

Golden opportunity to name, names!

Thanks Cherful, ShadowMinister, Josephus, David F, Armchair Critic, O Sung Wu, GY, some others for your useful comments here.

CM,

Do you think you gain something by thanking those you simply agree with, like some school headmaster. A fair question from me, the fact you incessantly bang on about "Communists" on this forum, but when asked to name names, of those of influence in Australia you consider "Communists", you say nothing. YOU don't know of any, do you.

I found this on the net.

“Communism" is an umbrella term that encompasses a range of ideologies. The term's modern usage originated with Victor d'Hupay, an 18th-century French aristocrat who advocated living in "communes" in which all property would be shared, and "all may benefit from everybody's work." The idea was hardly new even at that time, however: the Book of Acts describes first-century Christian communities holding property in common according to a system known as koinonia, which inspired later religious groups such as the 17th-century English "Diggers" to reject private ownership.”

The soviet version became a tyranny, but communism, itself, had a noble beginning.

“"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" (German: Jeder nach seinen Fähigkeiten, jedem nach seinen Bedürfnissen) is a slogan popularised by Karl Marx in his 1875 Critique of the Gotha Programme. The principle refers to free access to and distribution of goods, capital and services.”

The idea of doing as much as you can for the community and the community helping you according to your needs seems like a good way to live. It is compatible with democracy.

Things that work at the scale of the tribe- don't work at other scales- effectively David F seems to be talking about a tribe.

This is indicated by the 100 Million dead under communism.

I don't know much about Marx but he seems the worst sort of person- freeloading off and corrupting industrialist Engels- himself a womanizer, avoiding his responsibilities for the factory, etc. At least Marx seemed faithful to Mary even if absent.

There is interesting work in psychology that talks about the number of people we conceptualize in our minds as part of our tribe. (Generally I don't think much of the profession of psychology.)

This is interesting...

http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/12/19/why-be-concerned-about-the-memorial-to-the-victims-of-communism-controversy-in-canada/

http://www.theepochtimes.com/remember-the-100-million-victims-of-communism_2556839.html

Dear Canem Malum,

I am well aware of the victims of Communism and have written about them in the following:

https://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=12693

I am also aware of the millions of victims of Christianity in the wars of the Reformation, the struggles between different brands of Christianity in the fifth century with the eventual triumph of the Roman brand, the millions martyred or forced into slavery by Christian imperialism, the martyrs to Christian intolerance in the Inquisition and the culmination of Christian hatred in the Nazi Holocaust. The Nazi excesses were the logical outcome of Christian inspired hate.

Christianity has also inspired caring and compassion. Like communism Christianity is a mixed bag.

Both Christianity and communism have committed grave atrocities and have had noble beginnings. They both have tribal aspects.

In a sense Hebrewism is responsible for Christian Imperialism- Christianity being an sect of entryist Hebrewism especially during the early stages- Nietzsche appears to agree. All civilizations act tyrannically when outgroups act outside the sandbox- but in Communism there is no sandbox of freedom- there is only obedience or death- even inside your own head.

I like to think that European's have modified and owned Christianity over time (rather than being owned by Judea) and is the basis of western civilization. Protestant hard work seems to be an example of this- despite the instability caused within the Catholic Church.

The conflict between the European "Roman's" and Middle Eastern Silk Road "Judea" seems to have continued for 2000 years- describing the elements of conflict as a shared history of Judeo-Christianity seems to be a reframing of massive bloodshed as vigorous debate.

I suppose David F could be implying that Communism will bring similar benefits to Christianity over time (after many hundreds or a thousand years). However Communism seems to be pure misery and the worst tyranny for those forced to live under it- where as Christianity at times was interspaced by relatively short periods of misery and tyranny such as the Spanish Inquisition.

But in a sense I agree with David F that as we progress things stay the same- ie. much progressive politics isn't very progressive. Progressive is perhaps code for "I'm going to screw you but I'm going to tell you it's for your own benefit"- sounds very similar to communist claims of equality. Those advocating change and blind progressiveness aren't doing it for your benefit.

Generally I think that people should govern themselves- like the Roman and Catholic confederal model- at a minimum this means they only have themselves to blame if things go wrong and they wipe themselves out- this is in opposition to the dictatorial death yoke of communist universalism and globalism.

There are issues of cooperation/ freeloading inherent in the confederal model- needs balance between control and freedom at the different levels of social hierarchy.

Interesting things from Peter Turchin about civilization- carefully avoids politics.

David F said "The Nazi excesses were the logical outcome of Christian inspired hate".

Answer- not sure what David F is saying here. But it sounds like he is saying that the logical progression of Christianity is Nazism.

Perhaps the logical progression of David F's birth culture being Hebrewism is Nazism too.

Perhaps there is a bit of Nazism rightly or wrongly in everyone. Perhaps the label Nazism produces a market distortion that stops us solving important problems. I think David F has acknowledged this fact in previous points above.

Other- I like David F's article which he kindly provided in an above link about the evils of Communism- thanks David F. http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=12693

David F said "The soviet version became a tyranny, but communism, itself, had a noble beginning."

Answer- I'm unsure about this noble beginning- because people are not equal- most movement leaders seek to maintain control of the movement while growing membership. It wasn't communist leaders that pulled the masses out of poverty- it was the evil industrialists of the industrial revolution and mass production which created goods that everyone could afford. There is a problem with industrialism because the moguls lose touch and set up legal frameworks to stop competition but we do need to reward those who produce- but we reward them less than their production- society benefits from the excess- otherwise we are rewarding those who don't produce- and there is nothing for society.

So stop Communism and it's probable inculcation through the auspices/vehicle of sexual revolution ie. "Stop Pedo Freaks".

CM,

How are you going with that list of influential Australian Communists? The fact you ignore the question, show YOU are full of it! There is not one Communist of influence in Australia, its all in your imagination.

I think they probably have a point "stop pedo freaks".

David F,

Just about every religion has extremists and Christianity is no worse than Islam etc. Aggressors through time have declared their war just and used the church including even Putin. However, trying to lay Nazi crimes at the feet of Christianity is a huge stretch.

SM,

The European Christian Churches were generally supporters of Fascism. There was the odd exceptions among clergy, but by and large they accepted Fascism as a counter to anti-christian Communism. As for the Jews, there were not Christian, and were of little concern. After the war there were those in the Vatican that actively helped Nazi's to escape justice.

In Australia, the Liberal Party government under the pro Fascist Menzies, turned a blind eye to collaborates of the Nazi's from Eastern Europe encouraging them to migrate here. Many of these pro Nazi collaborators joined the Liberal Party and were known as the 'Ugly' faction.

Dear shadow minister,

The hatred for Jews inspired by Christianity made Christian holidays especially dangerous for Jews. One of the many examples follow:

https://theconversation.com/why-good-friday-was-dangerous-for-jews-in-the-middle-ages-and-how-that-changed-114896

During this time, a chant known as “the Reproaches” was sung. In this piece, the voice of God accused the Jewish people of faithlessness in rejecting Jesus as their Messiah and crucifying him instead.

Medieval Christians thus received the message on Good Friday that the Jews who lived in their midst were the enemies of Christians who killed their savior and needed to either convert to Christianity or face divine punishment.

Good Friday and medieval Jews

This language about Jews in the medieval Good Friday liturgy often carried over into physical violence toward local Jewish communities.
It was common for Jewish houses to be attacked with stones. Often these attacks were led by the clergy. David Nirenberg, a scholar of medieval Jewish-Christian relations, argues that this violence reenacted the violence of Jesus’ suffering and death.

Another scholar of this history, Lester Little, argues that the attack on the Jewish community was meant to be a revenge for the death of Jesus and a ritual act that reinforced the boundary between Jews and Christians.

Local clergy who encouraged and participated in the violence against Jews were in violation of the rules of their own church. Church law sought to protect Jews and required them to stay inside on Good Friday. Historically, the western church took responsibility for the safeguarding of Jewish communities because they viewed Jews as preservers of the Old Testament, and thus of the prophecies concerning Jesus. Official positions were, however, often ignored locally as many Christians sought to assert their power over the Jewish community.

Hitler said he “was doing the work of the church”, and many agreed with him. Hitler followed Christian tradition.

Dear Shadow Minister,

Christian authors have connected the Jew hatred culminating in the Nazi Holocaust with Christianity. One example follows:

Christian Antisemitism
A History of Hate
William Nicholls

In Christian Antisemitism: A History of Hate, Professor William Nicholls, a former minister in the Anglican Church and the founder of the Department of Religious Studies at the University of British Columbia, presents his stunning research, stating that Christian teaching is primarily responsible for antisemitism. As Nicholls states, these conclusions 'can now be fully justified by the most up-to-date scholarship, Christian as well as Jewish.' Nicholls writes, 'Many Jewish writers have said, quite simply, that the Nazis chose the Jews as the target of their hate because two thousand years of Christian teaching had accustomed the world to do so. Few Christian historians and theologians have been sufficiently open to the painful truth to accept this explanation without considerable qualification. Nevertheless, it is correct.' Christian Antisemitism traces, over two millennia, the growing domination of Western culture by the Christian 'myth' (as Nicholls calls it) about the Jews, and shows how it still exerts a major influence even on the secularized 'post-Christian world.' Nicholls shows, through scrupulous research and documentation, that the myth of the Jews as Christ-killers has powered anti-Judaism and antisemitism throughout the centuries. Nicholls clearly illustrates that this myth is present in the New Testament and that 'it has not yet died under the impact of modern critical history.' Also included in this remarkable volume is Nicholls' research

David,

What your "Christian" author completely neglects is that when Germany was losing the war, the leaders blamed the Jews as a convenient scapegoat for selling out the country which created a vicious version of antisemitism in Germany which had little to nothing to do with Christianity. That Jews were smart, hard-working and kept to themselves made them an easy target. That Muslims were and still are viciously antisemitic and still are has nothing to do with Christianity. That atheistic left-wingers are also heavily antisemitic also has nothing to do with Christianity.

Dear shadowminister,

He was a Christian author not a "Christian" author. The Nazis could blame the Jews and it was accepted because Christianity had fostered Jew hatred, and it was endemic in the Christian psyche. You, as many Christians do, deny that heritage. It exists whether you deny it or not.

SM,

I see busy defending the Nazi's once more. Now how do you get your wizz-bang word genius to differentiate between "Christian" and Christian at 2.58pm NZ time on a Tuesday afternoon during work hours, another "team meeting" hummm. Maybe, a slack afternoon in the loo? hummmm.

As they say;

You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool PAUL1405!

I wonder if David F thinks that the Hebrew Christian Sect destroyed the Roman Empire. You could say that Hebrew's were partially (or largely)responsible for the destruction of the Library at Alexandria in 260AD as part of the Hebrew Christian Sect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria

All civilizations use politics, propaganda, and spies to gain advantage. Even today I'm sure that Hebrew's are engaging in spycraft and espionage- just as everyone else is. The fact that Hebrew's exist today in spite of developing in one of the most contended locations on Earth on the Silk/ Spice Road shows that they have been successful at using the available tools- many of the civilizations of the region are dead. If Rome hadn't have destroyed Jerusalem perhaps the Islamic revolution would have- or maybe there would be a Hebrew superpower now in Judea the whole of the Middle East and Afghanistan.

Given Germany was the Holy Roman Empire until 1800's the descendant of Rome they were probably cautious about Hebrew politicing and spycraft.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roman_Empire

I wonder why Hebrew's didn't return to the Middle East after the fall of the Roman Empire- obviously Muslims didn't want Hebrew's on "their" land (from 800AD) either when they filled the vacuum left by Rome in about 400AD.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Islam

Hebrew's- writer Isaac Asimov (PsychoHistory) and Peter Turchin (Cliodynamics) talk about

"The statistical functions of unaffected(by acts of Psychological) large groups of people could predict the general flow of future events."

and

"The coevolutionary model of social complexity and warfare, based on the theoretical framework of cultural multilevel selection"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychohistory_(fictional)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliodynamics

The above theories are interesting in the context of understanding (and applying blame) the history of Christo-Judean (Judeo-Christian) relations- though perhaps bias in favour of the Hebrew author's theories

Dear Paul1405,

Shadow minister was not defending the Nazis. He was defending Christians. Nazis appealed to the hate that was already placed there by Christianity. Some Christians of good will such as Pope John XXIII have admitted what Christianity has done in the past to foster hatred, but shadow minister still defends what is indefensible in Christianity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nostra_aetate

"Following an approach by Jules Isaac, a French-born Jew who was associated with the Seelisberg Conference of the International Council of Christians and Jews, in which, he claimed that what he called "Christian antisemitism", had prepared the way for the Holocaust, a sympathetic Pope John XXIII endorsed the creation of a document which would address a new, less adversarial, approach to the relationship between the Catholic Church and Rabbinic Judaism. Within the Church, conservative Cardinals were suspicious and Middle Eastern Catholics strongly opposed the creation of such a document. With the Arab–Israeli conflict in full swing, the governments of Arab nations such as Egypt (in particular), Lebanon, Syria and Iraq vocally lobbied against its development (the document was subjected to several leaks during its development due to the involvement of the intelligence agencies of several nations). Jewish organisations such as the American Jewish Committee, B'nai B'rith and the World Jewish Congress also lobbied for their side with the assistance of sympathetic liberal clergymen.[6] After going through numerous drafts, compromises were made and a statement was added on Islam to mollify the security concerns of the Arab Christians. Finally, statements on Eastern religions; Buddhism and Hinduism; were also added."

Pope John XXIII was a Christian of good will. Professor William Nicholls, a former minister in the Anglican Church and the founder of the Department of Religious Studies at the University of British Columbia, who wrote "Antisemitism: a History of Hate" is also a Christian of good will. The past cannot be changed, but it can be acknowledged.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Jerusalem

Jerusalem capitulated to Alexander The Great in 332BC in a Paris type move. Alexander The Great possibly resulted from hundreds of years of attempted invasions from the Middle East until Europe eventually got annoyed enough to teach the Middle East a lesson.

In 70AD (400years later) Jerusalem became a big enough problem that the Roman's destroyed it to the brick to stop them rebuilding/ refortifying it.

Persian Empire and Judea
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Judah
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achaemenid_Empire

Looks like Judea had a similar issue with Assyria that Rome had in refusing to pay taxes.

I think we need to be careful how the words of Pope John XXIII are interpreted. Perhaps he was hoping that in admitting the Christian sins Hebrew's would acknowledge theirs.

The words of the Pope are perhaps important but not definitive.

David,

Paul is a liar and a fraud. Menzies was as pro-fascism as the Greens were pro paedophilia.

Secondly, I was explicitly talking about post-WW1 Germany and your failure to acknowledge the government's influence in using Jews as a scapegoat for the defeat and massive losses in the war. Even then the non-Christian Communists had no problem killing Jews, they just killed vast numbers of people that didn't conform putting the Nazis in the shade.

In medieval times the church persecuted all non-believers as did the Muslims and pretty much every other faith. In fact, Christianity seems to be the only faith that seems today to have tolerance for other faiths.

Menzies was pro Fascist, in 1938, he gave a glowing report after a 2 week visit to Nazi Germany.

Love dem pedos don't you SM, can't help mentioning them can you. I think you get off on the subject. Can't top the Liberals they gave Australia a paedophile Prime Minister.

Pauliar,

Once again you are a liar and a fraud. Menzies was impressed with the lifting of Germany out of bankruptcy in a short time as many worldwide readily declared war on fascism when it became a threat. You claim not to be a communist but frequently praise them. Clearly, you are pro-communist and approve of the millions of innocent people they killed.

You love them Fascists don't you, you can't help mentioning them. I love bringing up the Green's dark past. As for the liberal PM, there's never been a jot of proof, unlike the two convicted green paedophiles.

ShadowMinister said- "Menzies was impressed with the lifting of Germany out of bankruptcy"

Answer- Good point