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The Forum > General Discussion > The Fall Of The American :

The Fall Of The American :

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"It is much worse for Ukraine than Russia at present. Further, Russia faces no threat of invasion, so I don't buy them playing the victim."

Watch the video, the people in the Donbass say the war was unavoidable.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Saturday, 25 March 2023 3:06:28 PM
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Hi AC,

Yes, I have seen the video. Propaganda is very convincing. It left an enduring legacy of antisemitism after the second world war. I agree that the Ukrainian army will be perceived as an invading force in much of occupied Ukraine.
Posted by Fester, Saturday, 25 March 2023 3:32:23 PM
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I've got some questions

It's about regime changes, sponsored coups, liberal interventionism
What do you other forum members think of this, do you think its right?

Is it right for one group or nation to spend money, organise people to engage in civil disobedience including criminal acts or support an armed opposition for the purposes of showing a government response or crackdown on a complicit western or democratic leaning media in order to remove a leader from power and install one that is more favorable to the west as well as western business and financial interests?

The west has done this in so many countries, sometimes successful other times not using many different issues, gay rights, womens rights come to mind. What if it's a muslim or christian nation for example, maybe we all think that a secular country is best with a seperation of church and state, but is it right to impose our ideals on others?

Is it right to use these issues to set about a change of government in another country?

Is it right to use money and trade as weapons?

Is it right to impose our worldview on others?

Is it right to do this knowing some people will get killed or injured for the sake of a 'greater good'?

Is it right to seek to expand NATO if it means profits for US companies?

Is it right to destroy gas pipelines of another country to gain a favorable advantage for your own country?

Is deliberately cousing civil unrest and conflicts and waging collective punishment by sanctions on the people of another country?

What do you all think of these things?
Posted by Armchair Critic, Sunday, 26 March 2023 12:19:32 AM
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- I made a mistake in that last sentence, I meant to say:

Is deliberately causing civil unrest and conflicts and waging collective punishment by sanctions on the people of another country something we should support?
Posted by Armchair Critic, Sunday, 26 March 2023 12:23:24 AM
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Hi AC,

The sanctions are to make it harder for Russia to make weapons for its war in Ukraine, a war it initiated in part because it didn't approve of the political system in Ukraine. Most your points relate directly to Russian conduct.

I think it a smart move by Russia to employ older tanks as they are being used as self propelled artillery, but the Russian invasion is being hampered by a lack of ammunition and difficulties in mounting frontal assaults. It will be interesting to see how well the Ukrainians can deal with mines and cluster munitions. I think that will be essential for a successful counteroffensive.
Posted by Fester, Sunday, 26 March 2023 9:54:07 AM
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"The sanctions are to make it harder for Russia to make weapons for its war in Ukraine, a war it initiated in part because it didn't approve of the political system in Ukraine."

I think one needs to recognise that the war started in 2014 not 2022, and I also think one needs to recognise that 'it didn't approve of the political system in Ukraine' that the west engineered through a bloody coup to depose the existing democratically elected leaders.

- If we're going to make an argument then may as well tell the whole story not part of it.

As for the comments regarding the war, I just wish they could come to some agreement, too many people have been killed and wounded more or less needlessly. I'm not sure how Ukraine's spring counteroffensive will go, I've seen reports that even Zelensky has his doubts, but my main sources are probably pro-Russian leaning.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Sunday, 26 March 2023 11:16:24 AM
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