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The Forum > General Discussion > Putin Talks of Negotiation over Ukraine,

Putin Talks of Negotiation over Ukraine,

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Ukraine could've followed the path set out by the Minsk agreements or stopped shelling innocent people, inc. hospitals and kindergartens in Donetsk.
Too late now, Russia's not going to give up its new territories.
- That ship sailed months ago, and they are not going to make deals knowing full well deals with the West cannot be trusted.

“Our proposals for the demilitarisation and denazification of the territories controlled by the regime, the elimination of threats to Russia’s security emanating from there, including our new lands, are well known to the enemy,” state news agency TASS quoted Lavrov as saying late on Monday.
“The point is simple: Fulfil them for your own good. Otherwise, the issue will be decided by the Russian army,”

There's no other way to take Russia's position.
It will be decided on the battlefield and many will die.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Thursday, 5 January 2023 4:43:14 PM
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Hi AC

"Ukraine could've followed the path set out by the Minsk agreements"

The Minsk agreements were typical Russian "do as I say not as I do" agreements. What Russia does is very reminiscent of the Nazis and the USSR, i.e. invent persecutions of ethnic populations, send in the army, then rig elections by which the occupied territory chooses to cede, so becoming independent republics or part of the motherland or fatherland. The alternative to accepting the false narrative is war. I think Putin and his henchmen as interested in diplomacy as the Nazis, which is why I agree that a military solution is the only option.

I have trouble understanding how Putin is going to equip another 500,000 troops. Both Russia and Ukraine are having trouble keeping their war machines going. Russia, for example, is firing a quarter to a third the number of artillery rounds as it was some months ago. Why would an army so replete with equipment and troops be at such a standstill (and it is only at a standstill because Russia is sacrificing thousands of troops a week in human waves)?

Ukraine has been very effective at using its range and accuracy advantage to target barracks, arsenals and supply routes. Kreminna seems to be the major strategic objective currently, but the Ukrainians seem to be good at spotting weaknesses. They might be getting Himars munitions with twice the range, along with more sophisticated drones, so Russia will be more vulnerable at greater distance from the front line.
Posted by Fester, Thursday, 5 January 2023 5:56:28 PM
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AC keeps on banging on about the Minsk agreement. This was at best a ceasefire agreement that Russia broke more frequently than Ukraine. It did not cede any land to Russia. What AC forgets is the Budapest agreement where Russia guaranteed the sovereignty of Ukraine and its pre-2014 borders.

Russia has zero integrity and no honour.

In the last few days, more than 1000 Russian conscripts have been killed without even making it to the front line and at least that number is critically injured. The Russians still haven't learnt to concentrate their troops, equipment and ammunition in small areas.

Kreminna is now under siege.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJHRNaSr2Vo&list=RDCMUCcNB1tZYpeDetqCadElv9Ow&start_radio=1&ab_channel=ReportingfromUkraine
Posted by shadowminister, Friday, 6 January 2023 4:08:53 AM
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Minsk agreement, Budapest agreement, lets have the PEACE AGREEMENT. Like all wars, this war has extracted a heavy toll in human suffering, needless deaths and destruction, all for nothing.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 6 January 2023 4:51:57 AM
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Dear Paul,

The best thing that the world can do for peace in
this dreadful conflict is to increase our military,
economic, and humanitarian support for Ukraine
until one day Ukraine can negotiate from a position
of strength.

The worst thing would be to push for peace negotiations
with Vladimir Putin who would like nothing more than to
have a ceasefire in Ukraine. He could sit around his
Covid-secure long table in the Kremlin dictating the
terms.

In the meantime the Russian dictator's battered,
demoralised armed forces could dig in to defend
the still large expanse of Ukraine they still occupy,
regroup, rest, re-arm and bring in the recently
conscripted reinforcements and then start up the war
again.

This would also be a global demonstration that armed
aggression pays. Watch out Taiwan.

However Ukrainians would never accept this. Opinion polls
show Ukrainians are prepared to pay a very heavy price,
including further military and civilian casualties to
regain their territory. So negotiating with Putin on his
terms would be a recipe not for peace but for an even
longer war.

Putin needs to be replaced.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 6 January 2023 5:33:41 AM
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Hi Foxy,

As a pacifist I can't accept the notion that "war is the best avenue to peace" its been tried over and over and its been a failure, this war is no exception. People from governments down take a position, Russia right... Ukraine wrong, Ukraine right... Russia wrong. My position is all war is wrong, this war is wrong, the only avenue to peace is through goodwill and negotiation by all concerned, and hopefully that will take place very soon.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 6 January 2023 6:25:37 AM
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