AP
Thanks for responding. I don't know why violence is increasing. It appears to be an increasing problem probably fuelled by the increased consumption of alcohol, family breakdown and disenfranchisement of youth, particularly amongst minority groups.

Any program that seeks to reduce violence has to be an inclusive effort involving men and women for men and women (and children).

Anti
I don't know how you can make firm generalisations about how much more or less women or men need respect, love or security. If you think all women care about are curtains and carpets, that we are all high maintenance contributing little else to our communities or families, then you need to get out more and meet some new people.

Houlley
Please don't make me a beacon. Beacons tend to become dazzled by their own light while the ships are crashing against the rocks. Most of life is just as you put it, pragmatic common sense.

I wonder if we should dispense with the term feminism and start a clean slate, thinking whollistically as humanists or humanitarians.

Much of the issues of violence (IMO) centres on the breakdown of family and the rush to become an economy first and foremost. Lack of respect for others, failure to raise children in loving and secure environments, demise of manners, and most importantly, over-commercialisation.

We have become consumers first and citizens second. It pervades the media and advertising - "You're worth it". There is a big difference between instilling confidence and self-esteem and over-emphasising the importance of self.

How we instil those values of respect for others I don't know but it needs to start in the home and maybe we are too late and the fixes will be bandaids rather than cures.

phanto...keeping a women locked up indoors forever would certainly lower the instances of sexual violence. and men would not have to change. but what happens if they wanna go shopping, or take their kids to school, or go out drinking on their birthday....i mean listen to yourself.

again...don't be frightened, women don't want to hurt you, they just want a chat about how you can help.

Sykes if you are serious about wanting to reduce aggression in the world you might begin with your own behaviour. Putting people down by using patronising language and behaving like a drama queen are two ways of perpetrating the status quo. The aim in both instances is to try and hurt someone simply because they disagree with you. Sometimes that behaviour can do more damage than being physically violent.

The authors of this article are just being opportunistic. Whenever the media report a case of sexual abuse or in this case bad attitudes to women it is seized upon by women like these authors who then conclude that most men are like those being reported about. It is this pathetic logic that annoys most men. We are the victims of a very different kind of aggression where people distort reason in order to promote a personal agenda.

Using the same logic you could say that some men commit murder therefore it is likely that most men are murderers. You could say the same about women murderers. It is this absolute disregard for basic human fairness and justice in reporting the truth that makes a mockery of suggestions that these women are trying to find a solution to the problem. Which version of the problem is it? Their version or the version held to by people who respect reason and logic as the cornerstone of behaviour between equals.

There are some men who indulge in sexual violence or abuse or rape. To deduce from that that most men have bad attitudes to women is just plain dishonest. It doesn’t matter what their problem is until these women learn to be honest and to treat men with respect by following the norms of human decency then they will never be listened to. I suspect from their attitudes towards men that finding an answer to the problem of why some men are sexually abusive is not their real aim.

Phanto I often enjoy reading your posts and considering your POV. Having done that, I can't agree with the thrust of your last post.

Phanto: <"It doesn’t matter what their problem is until these women learn to be honest and to treat men with respect by following the norms of human decency then they will never be listened to.">

So, unless men obtain some level of respect that men in general deem appropriate, women cannot expect even men who don't rape or abuse women, to express disapproval of those who do.

Sounds very Taliban to me.

Either you disapprove of men who rape and abuse women (and other men and children of both sexes) or you don't.

If men oppose those behaviours - please say so.

Men who won't and don't openly and unconditionally condemn such behaviour, are by default allowing it to continue; ie: they have a bad attitude to women.

Pynchme:"unless men obtain some level of respect that men in general deem appropriate, women cannot expect even men who don't rape or abuse women, to express disapproval of those who do."

Sounds about right, especially given that any time a man says anything that is not fulsomely supportive of the most extreme misandry he's labelled misogynist by the likes of you and the authors of this article.

The Feminist movement and the whole push to reduce sexual assaults against women was based on the notion that women are worthy of respect and that their views should be listened to. Now we have you ridiculing phanto for daring to suggest that the same thing may be applicable to men.

As I said, you never met a man you weren't prepared to despise on sight. I can only put it down to penis envy.

Pelican:"If you think all women care about are curtains and carpets"

Not at all, but let's face it, who makes those decisions in your home? Who decides the decision even needs to be made? I bet your hubby has a great line in nodding into his paper when the subject is raised.

The point, of course, is that on the whole men invest a great deal more into a marriage than women or feminist-ideologues would have us believe. We feel the loss of a spouse more deeply and we take longer to get over it than women do. Previous studies have shown the same thing. Perhaps the difference is down to differences in socialising outside the home, as Houellebecq suggests, but it exists.

The usual response from the nitwits is "oh, he's just bitter cos the wife left him", implying "he must be a real loser", when in fact he's expressing a genuinely-held sense of bereavement.

Divorce is initiated by women in about 80% of cases in this country, usually without any context of violence in the home. It is an epidemic of violence against men.

pynchme,

Why is it so important that men 'express disapproval' all the time for what other men do? It is taken as read that women disapprove of rape. That you don't think it is taken as read that most men disapprove of rape means that you think that men are somehow responsible as a gender, and you see us as all the same entity. I refuse to apologise for my gender, but obviously like 99% of men I disapprove of rape.

antiseptic,

'.... It is an epidemic of violence against men.'

WTF? Violence against men? That's the kind of melodramatic hyperbole used all the time by the feminists. It's even better than 'regretted sex' or 'unwated sex' being thrown in there with rape.

'The usual response from the nitwits is "oh, he's just bitter cos the wife left him", implying "he must be a real loser", when in fact he's expressing a genuinely-held sense of bereavement.'

I suspect you are right that many women probably don't appreciate the depth of men's feelings (maybe that's why they leave), but that's probably because men don't show them. But bitterness is easy to spot, and no offence, but to me you seem quite bitter. So does pynchme though, you make a great pair.

'Not at all, but let's face it, who makes those decisions in your home?'

Haha, I've been watching all these renovation/relocation shows from the UK because I miss the place at times. Now they always interview what the husband and wife want at the start and quite often it's different, or they're buying one house for one and another for the other in a different town near work. Can you guess who ALWAYS gets their way, and where the budget ALWAYS gets spent?

As I said before though, the men need to grow some balls. I suppose that makes me misogynist wanting there to be some compromise though.

BTW: The argument is very compelling when you relate it to gender wage gaps. There's no denying that whatever men and women earn, the women do most of the spending.