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The Forum > Article Comments > ‘Post-feminist’ or ‘pro-rape’ culture? > Comments

‘Post-feminist’ or ‘pro-rape’ culture? : Comments

By Anastasia Powell and Sheree Cartwright, published 16/11/2009

Women and men need to work together to ensure a culture that is 'anti-rape' and pro-equality.

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great article, thanx. boys role models are of course their fathers first and foremost, but i would humbly suggest we need to start in primary schools, and we need to highlight "equality" and feminism as something that was never, ever only to do with jobs, and work and pay scales...but as a set of quite reasonable, polite, decent 21st century human ethics - my grandfather always said it was important to "be the gentleman, never the cad"...while the notion of the gentleman itself can and should be subjected to feminist critique..a “gentle”man would never, ever do half the things that NRL players and other male role models think is "ok"! so somewhere between basic politeness and feminist inspired self analysis is a set of universal ethics which all Australian men and women (and grrls)could (must) aspire to, if Australia is not to continue its collapse into a shameless excuse for a decent country.
Posted by E.Sykes, Monday, 16 November 2009 9:07:00 AM
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WTF?

At first I thought this article was going somewhere until I read:

“Indeed, in 2009, nearing a decade after the turn of the new century, gender equality and justice, and women’s liberation seem further out of reach than ever before.”

Let’s start to ask the hard questions.

Rather then ask why men act so appallingly towards women ask, “Which men act so appallingly towards women?”

Rather then worry about “raunchy” but harmless behaviour by young women ask the question - “Which women accept an invitation to have sex in the male toilets with a footballer they met only one minute ago?”

I believe a pattern would very quickly emerge. I believe this pattern would challenge the fundamental beliefs of many men and women.

Ask the question – “Which women find gender equality and justice and women’s liberation further out of reach then ever before?”
Posted by WTF?, Monday, 16 November 2009 10:37:38 AM
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'young women also commonly report experiencing unwanted sex,'

Well they had better make more sensible decisions next time. This is purely an education of women issue. You know, making adult decisions and examining and taking responsibility for the consequences.

'what we expect of “men” and “women” in terms of how we should “think”'
Scary. I'll think for myself thanks.

'We also need those men who oppose rape, and who actively negotiate their relationships with women on the basis of equality, respect and mutuality, to speak up and enter into these debates.'

Very funny. That'll never happen. And not because of the men. Anyone who uses the 1 in 3 women are this and that type exaggerations will never get the trust of men. Call it the collateral damage of the raising awareness, standard misrepresentation and exaggeration culture for all lobbyists, but this particular issue is easily perceived as man bashing.

Why do you think re-education is the key? The young men with these attitudes have been force-fed feminist propaganda since they were in nappies. How well do you think it has worked?

Government-sponsored advertisements telling him he's a violent, binge-drinking, speeder with a small dick don't help either. Every message young males get is negative, don't do this, don't act your gender, while every message he sees young girls get is positive and celebrating the female gender that can do anything, and I reckon it leads to a lot of resentment and a self fulfilling prophecy.
Posted by Houellebecq, Monday, 16 November 2009 11:52:57 AM
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WTF, I fully suspect that even when Women make up the golden 50% mark in politics and in the boardroom, there will be women who will still claim that women have a long way to go to achieve equality.

You see once one bench mark is achieved, still another is created, so it will be an never ending cycle and totally unachievable.

There are also problems with equality, in that what is one womans equality, is anothers oppression. Just like, what is one woman's knight in shining armour, is anothers sleazebag.
Posted by JamesH, Monday, 16 November 2009 11:58:46 AM
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"Indeed, in 2009, nearing a decade after the turn of the new century, gender equality and justice, and women’s liberation seem further out of reach than ever before."

Can I speak to the Dean, please? I want to arrange for a compulsory enrolment in Modern History 101.
Posted by Jon J, Monday, 16 November 2009 12:36:18 PM
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What is the difference between ‘unwanted sex’ and sexual abuse? Surely if you do not want sex you would make that clear to anyone who suggests it. If your decision is not accepted and sex takes place then it must be sexual abuse or rape.

It seems that ‘unwanted sex’ is a new category where women do not have to communicate their decision until after the event. Or maybe it is sex that they participate in because there will be some pay-off for them in other ways. They would rather not have the sex but accept it as the price to pay for what they see as other benefits. In that case they do want sex but for the wrong reasons. What they are trying to say is that they do not like having to participate in sex to get what they want. The problem is not with sex but with their attitudes to the things they want like home, children, security, companionship, success, promotion. They value these things more than they value personal integrity. Many women do not know how to obtain those things without compromising their own integrity and they do not like that about themselves. Instead of owning their own betrayal of themselves they point the finger at men’s attitudes to women. They project their own dislike of themselves onto men.

These articles are not about sexual violence or rape which are quite clearly defined even if they cannot always be proven. There is no doubt they should never be condoned. There is nothing to debate. The real purpose of these articles is an unconscious one. They are about women trying to understand themselves and why they sell themselves for the acquisition of those things that other women tell them are important. Women need to stand up to the emotional blackmail of other women. That is their real battle – it is not with men.
Posted by phanto, Monday, 16 November 2009 12:54:19 PM
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