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Schools, religion and community diversity : Comments
By Tim Mander, published 17/7/2009Those who argue for the exclusion of all religion from schools seek to have students blinkered and their education censored.
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Posted by Squeers, Wednesday, 29 July 2009 3:40:54 PM
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Fracelle, thanks, I have a more quotes but that one sums it up.
The lobbying of Evangelical Christians are paying dividends. Years ago I knew a minor politician who attended church and functions at the RSL. Having known him for years I knew he was a lapsed Catholic and an atheist and held the (then ) RSL in contempt. Why did he compromised his beliefs? His answer was "votes". The problem with me and others commenting here is that we are unorganized and complacent. Basically we should lift our game and make a noise in defence of secular education. I have of late made a pest of myself on the email to various members of parliament. One of my favourite targets is Greg Hunt (Greg.Hunt.MP@aph.gov.au). Now Greg seems to me to be a particularly nice guy living in a fog of religion induced delusion. Greg was an instigator and apologetic of this program. When I wrote to him about the program in 2007 he gave me well considered reply regarding "mentoring" and "counselling". I asked him why the people involved in this program HAD to be religious. He refused to answer this. No matter, his silence confirmed that these programs have more to do with the promotion of religion than the welfare of the student. What can we do about this situation, especially the problems in Queensland? My immediate suggestions are:- Visit web sites like Defence of Public Schools D.O.G.S.( http://www.adogs.info/) Use your email to lobby politicians. If you are faced with an evangelical "Chaplain" politely explain to them (in writing) how you hold their belief system in contempt and refuse them any contact with your child. Advise the principal that contact with between this person and your child may result in litigation. Get on the school council and make a pest of yourself. As per davidF's post attend religious "education" classes if you possibly can and make notes. Generally evangelicals amateurs do not have a great knowledge of their own religion. Revel in their ignorance. Give them a very hard time. Posted by Priscillian, Wednesday, 29 July 2009 8:28:53 PM
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Priscillian... good work.
We had a head-of-school called 'Hunt'. He was known as 'Sticky' because he was so objectionable. I am reminded of your e-pal. I have a speech Greg Hunt gave about 'religion in foreign policy' somewhere. Yes, apart from being trite he was quite missing the point of the topic he thought he was talking about: http://www.aiia.asn.au/associations/8220/files/Greg_Hunt_Religion_Foreign_Policy.pdf As always, Lyn Allison was better prepared: http://www.aiia.asn.au/associations/8220/files/Lyn_Allison_Religion_Foreign_Policy.pdf Tim Costello's World Vision missionaries were there to, showing why we do not need these 'faith driven' people let loose wandering around our public schools looking for 'at risk' students to convert to their brand of Baptist evangelism, as Bligh-Wilson are currently happy to allow: http://www.aiia.asn.au/associations/8220/files/Fiona_McLeay_Religion_Foreign_Policy.pdf I'd add another couple of steps readers could take. Visit the Australian Secular Lobby to watch the video clip on the abysmal state of Queensland's non-secular public education system here: http://www.australiansecularlobby.com/index.html And email Anna Bligh, asking her why she and her Education Minister, Geoff Wilson, whose electoral web page brags about his faith (http://www.geoffwilsonmp.com/about.php), do not believe Queensland deserves to have a secular public education system: Anna Bligh - thepremier@premiers.qld.gov.au Posted by The Blue Cross, Wednesday, 29 July 2009 9:02:05 PM
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It disgusts me that we are driven to these tactical manoeuvers just to get noticed, just to have our concerns heard! That these ideologically incumbent parasites complacently enjoy the patronage of government, unwary tax payers, and even fund-raising drives like "free dress day" at public schools. Without a doubt the vast majority of chaplains go about their assigned tasks with the best of intentions, but this makes them all the more plausible, and the agenda of their handlers all the more insidiously effective. If we must be saddled with unqualified "volunteers" as chaplains in our curmudgeonly public schools, they should demonstrate that there is no conflict of interest--as is the ideal in business and government--or affiliation with vested interests (including ideological, which is big business after all), or they should be a diverse cohort that reflects "all" community values, which of course will never happen.
Thanks for the tips, Priscillian--and Blue Cross (love the 4th R website and the "lets get secular back in the act" song. Though I lament the necessity, I for one will be following through and writing to the relevant parties! Posted by Squeers, Wednesday, 29 July 2009 10:04:48 PM
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From the Dept of Education Employment website:- http://www.deewr.gov.au/Schooling/NationalSchoolChaplaincyProgram/Pages/nscp_frequently_asked.aspx#01
"Chaplains will be expected to respect the range of religious views and affiliations, and cultural traditions in the school and the community, and be approachable by students of all faiths. While recognising that an individual chaplain will in good faith express his or her belief and articulate values consistent with his or her denomination or religious belief, a chaplain should not take advantage of his or her privileged position to proselytise for that denomination or religious belief." ...and "Who can be a school chaplain? For the purposes of this Program, a school chaplain is a person who is recognised: * by the local school, its community and the appropriate governing authority as having the skills and experience to deliver school chaplaincy services to the school and its community; and * through formal ordination, commissioning, recognised qualifications or endorsement by a recognised or accepted religious institution or a State/Territory government approved chaplaincy service." It is interesting that the guidlines forbid the chaplain to "proselytise for that denomination or religious belief" but at the same time must be associated with "an accepted religious institution." The inference here is quite plainly that a non-religious person does not have the moral credentials or ethical framework to carry out such a job. Can somebody please demonstrate to me that this is not the case? The "chaplain" is required to act in a moral and ethical manner without being permitted to explain to the student the basis of their morals. This, I suggest, is impossible. In the wise words of Woody Allen the program is ..... a travesty of a mockery of a sham of a mockery of a travesty of two mockeries of a sham." Posted by Priscillian, Wednesday, 29 July 2009 11:14:57 PM
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Priscillian and Squeers
It is good to see someone read the totally ignored DEEWR guidelines at last. DEEWR of course, pay no attention to what they say, and failed to even police the NSCP application forms, just handing out money to each and every school that sent a form in. Schools were entered for the cashcow by evangelical principals, or lazy ones, or weak ones, who gathered up a clutch of evangelical parents and pushed ahead with little or not community consultation. All objections were raised well before the flag went down, and all were totally ignored because the imperative was a base political one of Howard's and had nothing to do with 'the kiddies' at all. Now of course, Mander's mob has grown so large they have no intention of shrinking again, and via the Australian Christian Lobby, and the Australian Prayer Network, that hive of busy bees in each of our (hardly) democratic parliaments, they beaver away nibbling at the ears of populist driven goons like Gillard and the Christ-like Kevin Rudd to ensure we get one of these 'Christian' monsters in each and every school in Australia, paid at the highest levels. Imagine how much these unqualified, unprofessional, non-proselytising Christian missionaries will cost with their wages set at at least $60k, plus on costs, and paid as 'fringe benefits' they will give back no income tax at all, unlike any school teacher or school councillors, all while Manders Empire grows ever larger. But why do the ALP support all these community fringe-dwellers when they vote National and Family First? Clearly the ALP is as infiltrated by Baptists, Hillsongsters, Pell-potters, and Jensen Anglicans as is the Liberal Party. If I didn't know better, I'd be inclined to think all these 'religiously pure' people are actually working for 'Old Nick' rather than Jesus, so low are their values, morals and behaviours as they run their inter-ages massive social and economic Ponzi scam. Posted by The Blue Cross, Thursday, 30 July 2009 8:01:41 AM
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We shouldn’t exacerbate innocence or retard a child’s progress. Children are endlessly curious about the world, and genuinely want to know; and there is very little that we can’t discuss with them truthfully but sensitively when they ask (this includes often saying, as I do, “I don’t know, sweetheart. No one does”). Instead we discourage their natural curiosity and foist nonsense upon them, setting them up for a lifetime of confusion and disillusionment; or of subjection to the terrifying vagaries of an ideology they lack the strength to rebel against; or if they do rebel it becomes their life’s theme; or they just pay the whole thing lip service and pass on the habit ad nauseam. Who benefits from the prolongation of innocence, and from the imposition of fairy tales, scary or otherwise? Children don’t, their innocence is their weakest point, and it is exploited by all those who would prey on them, whether corporate, religious, or actual paedophiles.