Come back to the plot Dan. Although the education minister Geoff Wilson denies its existence, we need the dogma of a cult — along with the legislated right of Queensland public school teachers to give ‘lessons’ relating to it — removed from the Queensland Education Act and the Education Queensland curriculum. http://education.qld.gov.au/studentservices/inclusive/religion/ri/faqs/docs/bible_lessons.pdf

Further reading.. http://www.australiansecularlobby.com

Come on, Dan S de Merengue - the Queensland legislation is an anachronism that needs to be removed to reflect 21st century community values. As a parent of a child who attends a Queensland State School, Hugh Wilson's organisation has my support in its efforts to bring this anomalous situation to an end.

With respect to its pernicious activities in public schools in Queensland, Mander's SU is using the ill-advised chaplaincy program as a vehicle to brainwash impressionable young people into their particular version of religious ideology. They only get away with this because most parents are unaware of the extent of their insidious activities.

No government is likely to change the legislation unless there is a strong demand to do so from the electorate, and I think that Hugh Wilson's organisation should be commended for working to alert parents to what is happening in State schools.

I'm also personally grateful to Squeers for alerting me to the nauseating 'Shine' program. I talked to my 12-year old daughter about it, and while she's aware that some kids at her school have been sucked in by similar activities, she thinks that stuff's "totally uncool", and besides which she decided independently that she wants nothing to do with God some years back.

I’ll grant that you guys know more details of what’s happening on the ground than I. You live in Queensland and I do not. But on the face of it, the fuss seems more political and the differences philosophical than any kind of urgent human rights issue.

The reason I respond is mostly because Bushbasher accuses Christians of not wanting to debate. Now he hasn’t said anything in the days since I responded.

It seems the problems with Scripture Union are that they are religious (heaven forbid), insidious, pernicious, voodoo, and a few other choice adjectives. According to the complaints I’ve read above, Hillsong is sponsoring a program called Shine that, I’m guessing, encourages chastity before marriage. CJ Morgan’s daughter used her democratic freedoms to choose not to attend, as she thought it sounded decidedly uncool. I’m sorry, but I don’t see here the need to alert the council for human rights abuse.

This is the way I see it: In this world there are plenty of people who are religious and plenty who are not. This state of affairs is not going to change in a hurry. Kids growing up are inevitably going to be exposed to many influences, be it through friends, TV, ad campaigns, as well the philosophies within the formal study courses.

To be educated means to be prepared. We don’t prepare kids by hiding them away or cutting them off from certain influences. Rather we give them a safe and stable environment in which to process and evaluate the trends and influences in our world [end of sermon].

SU and Shine are not merely "religious", they are "fundamentalist", hence the "choice adjectives". We are asking for a secular education in which any kind of religious content is presented impartially, or preferably not at all in primary school, where kids should be learning how to "think", not what to believe. I would object just as vehemently if a load of rabid atheists, or Satanists, were encouraged to take up residence in our schools and proselytise. As you say, kids are exposed to many influences, and learning to negotiate them is part of growing up. But there is often precious little balance in a child's life, with powerful biases often exerted from one quarter or another of its family circle and circumstances. During these formative years, school at least should be a sanctuary from vested interests, in which a child develops his or her own discriminatory intelligence. And this is where the chaplaincy and Shine programmes are richly deserving of the epithets accorded them above. They are predatory and deceitful, proverbial wolves in sheep's clothing. Similarly, Chaplaincy posts are typically manned by ecstatic Baptists dressed in sober garb--passed off as disinterested "confidantes", no less! Similarly, the Shine agenda is embarked upon by cunning and stealth--specifically designed to catch not only the children, but their parents unawares as well! Christians are not in a position to debate these issues, hence the deafening silence; the pernicious and underhand practices that have been exposed have not been and cannot be gainsaid. However, if you want to continue to defend the indefensible, to rationalise the unreasonable, we'll go on rebuffing it, and with understandable dudgeon!

According to Dan: "We don’t prepare kids by hiding them away or cutting them off from certain influences".

Surely Dan, they should be 'cut off', or at least protected from certain Scripture Union influences such as this one on the wires this morning:

http://www.thedaily.com.au/news/2009/jul/28/chaplain-suggestive-msn-chats/

Oh Danny Boy, no need to get upset old chap.

"Did I hear what was happening in NSW? No, not recently. But on the face of it, you are saying that Christians are complaining about the proposal of Muslim schools.

"Can I ask you, what do you think about the creation of Muslim schools? I’d say that if you’re allowed to start Christian schools, then you must allow for Muslim schools also."

Yes, well, that's part of the point isn't it? If we are to waste public monies on religious schools, then it seems somewhat intolerant of so-called Christians to object to an Islamic school does it not?

I wouldn't give any of them a cracker, Islamic or Christian, nor any other religion.

'Tolerance'? Haven't you detected an undercurrent of lies and deceit in the world of 'Christian love' as described by Squeers?

As I recall Wilson's article, he was merely pointing out that we need to have secular public schools, and surely nothing can be more tolerant than that?

Most posters agree that it would be beneficial to educate the community 'about' religion, but they do not seem to subscribe to 'indoctrination', as with Shine-and-Squeers daughter.

Please read the 'misbehaving chaplain' Deepnortherner posted.

What a hoot! Tim Mander, Father of the Year, Protector of the Innocent, has gone into 'damage control'. No doubt to be passed off as just 'one rotten apple'.

But Education Queensland? They are hiding as far in the darkest corner as they can possibly go. What was their considered response? 'Scripture Union employs chaplains, not us'.

Well,well, well. Of course, when the acting DG and Minister are so blatantly biased towards 'Christians' and so clearly antagonistic towards people of 'other faiths' and 'none', what can we expect?

I want to know why the Queensland Teachers Union is so silent on this, and the QCPCA, who should be on the dognbone right now to Geoff Wilson demanding SU removes this chaplain immediately, while a full investigation is carried out by the CJC, or whoever has jurisdiction in this matter