I guess that's what makes these people fundamentalists; they are deaf to reason and above any argument we throw at them. Their bible, and the god they "choose" to infer within it, is the only authority they bow to. The rest is lip service. All our protests are merely evidence of the benighted state that we occupy in Babel. They will sometimes play the reason game, as with intelligent design--whose reasoning is anything but intelligent--but this is purely to impress the impressionable. Every political or scientific dalliance, they are no more than that, that they engage in is merely an opportunistic dialogue through which they can add to their numbers. By all means let these besotted dullards congregate, and let them recruit, but not among innocent children; at least let children gather their wits before they throw them away. We have to re-establish secularism in our schools. Religion should be taught like any other subject--impartially! After that let these people do their worst, but not with public funding, and deny them the oxygen of publicity, as we do Nazis.
It is the government that is at fault. These creatures are merely exploiting a breech.

Bushbasher,
I don’t see how Mander has misrepresented Wilson’s article.

After reading both articles, I see two people who hold strong views. One is an atheist, one is a Christian. It seems that one of them is a lot more tolerant of the other’s view, and more open to a range of influences within a multi-faith society. That is why I described his view as balanced.

Personally, I like secularism as a concept. I don’t like the way it is interpreted by some as synonymous with atheism. The pendulum swings around the definition of that word.

Much of Wilson’s article was set around Queensland politics. I live a long way from Queensland. I will never vote in Queensland, and I am not particularly interested in politics. I don’t understand why the law should be different in Queensland than other states of Australia. Perhaps it’s because people vote the way they do. If you want to lobby to change the law to bring it more into line with the rest of Australia, then good luck to you.

From where I sit, it seems like the people there have voted. Perhaps they’re concerned that if the word secular is brought in, then those with the hard nosed definition will push the pendulum too far their way.

Queensland's sectarian public education system is an international human rights issue. Not addressing this 100 year-old outrage and dismissing it as political/idealogical fluff can no longer be accepted.

Utilising the tragically unique theocratic Queensland Education Act, and more recently in excess of $60,000,000 in Federal and State government lucre, the Pentecostal/Chrismatic cults have been allowed to all but usurp our once sane Queensland State education system.

And yet all personnel within Education Queensland from the Minister downward cringe when confronted with the enormity of this catastrophe, and cannot bring themselves to publicly or privately dispute one fact contained within this international plea for help:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r8ESBkr128

Further reading here:

http://www.australiansecularlobby.com

Dan m'boy

"From where I sit, it seems like the people there have voted. Perhaps they’re concerned that if the word secular is brought in, then those with the hard nosed definition will push the pendulum too far their way."

They did 'vote'. In 1910, with the franchise available at that time, with a voting electorate of less than 250000 people.

Queensland has a larger population these days. The dominant Christian church remains Roman Catholic, followed by Anglican, not Hillsong-clones and mad-screaming fundie Baptists.

And no one has ever voted on 'chaplains' or 'Christian mentors' being allowed in to schools.

But what they 'voted' on is not any longer in place, with the Qld Government changing the rules without any new referendum or consultation with Queenslanders.

When it comes to 'tolerance' and Christians...hmmm, that's a joke.

Didn't you read about the Muslim schools in NSW being opposed by hordes of fearful angst ridden Christians?

Have you ever visited the home page of Scripture Union? Their role is to recruit school chidlren directly into the Jesus camp, as is the role of all Christians, being an evangelising and proselytising brand of religion.

There is no 'tolerance' allowed. Either you are 'saved' or 'damned'.

Either Christian or burning in Hell.

Tim Mander put up the 'multi-faith, multi-cultural' angle as a joke. He certainly does not believe that. And neither do any 'real' Christians. They are not allowed to.

You heard Bush, 'you are either with us, or against us' in his Holy Crusade against the Islamic world that Howard and Blair also happily supported.

There is another way, in fact there are many, and Christians like Tim are absolutely intolerant of it/them, insinuating themselves and their blind acolytes into every nook, every tiny crack in the secular world, to destroy it, and return us to where General Jimbo at the ACL wants to take us, into the glorious End Times, led by Danny Nahlia and the magnificent Famly First 'Albert Fielding' (and Senator Barnaby Rubble no doubt) back into the warm and snug arms of Jesus, and his unfathomable Daddy.

Indeed, Blue Cross. Christianity is a profoundly negative and otherworldy religion. As Nietzche observed, it offers no hope in "this" world. It's all very well ingratiating yourself with God and getting well set up in the hereafter, but what about now? Secularists as a group, I would deign to assert, are not entirely gloomy about the terrestrial prospects of the human race, if it be guided by reason, equality and humanitarian values rather than voodoo! Sectarian strife, around the world, is surely the single most virulent cancer afflicting possibly the otherwise healthy human organism. If we would be guided by genuine values based on our biology, and sympathy for all creatures that suffer, who knows what stature the human race might achieve? And that achievement doesn't have to be immortal to have been worth the effort! If the human race kills itself off in its current primitive state it might be no great loss; but were we to achieve our potential, the universe might then be said to have meaning--God might smile with pride. Surely Christianity in one form or another has had a fair go in the West--2,000 years seems reasonable? So all you Christians who enjoy the bounty science has provided, even as you drag it down, leave our kids alone! Bugger off by yourselves and fret about Hell and the hereafter. Secularists have better things to think about.

Blue cross,
Your argument might be clearer if it was less crowded by name calling.

And I’m not your boy.

You say the Queensland government implements rules without consulting the public. So why do you vote them out?

Did I hear what was happening in NSW? No, not recently. But on the face of it, you are saying that Christians are complaining about the proposal of Muslim schools.

Can I ask you, what do you think about the creation of Muslim schools? I’d say that if you’re allowed to start Christian schools, then you must allow for Muslim schools also.

If your point was that we need more tolerance, then I agree. We’d all be less fearful of others if we were open to learning more about each other’s values and beliefs. That was one point that Mander was trying to make.

Could you point out for me the elements and aspects of tolerance found within Hugh Wilson’s article?