CJ says that Queensland legislation is an anachronism that needs removal to reflect 21st century values, along with others who cry the need to return a secular status to public schools.

So can I describe my experience of secular education, Victorian style. Some of this relates to the 21st Century, while secularity in the Education Act dates from the 19th.

In recent years, in a high school close to my house in Melbourne, a local church began running a weekly voluntary lunchtime program for students. I heard it was generally well received by the school community, and has been allowed to continue for several years.

When I was in high school, the only time I remember hearing God mentioned was when the Gideon’s came (once), and the few times I attended the lunchtime program run by the local Baptist church (I only attended when it was raining).

My point being that some of what people are complaining about above happens just as well in other states. So by changing the law you might not achieve your apparent goals.

In six years of high school, I was never given one lesson in any form of philosophy, religion (comparative or otherwise), nor sex-education. I never heard any teacher say the words God or evolution (I took year 11 biology).

Some may say that that was an ideal, classical, form of secular education. Though I thought it was a good school, I would describe the approach shallow, perhaps cowardly. It’s not neutral. But it is rudderless. It risks communicating that life is unfathomable, or possibly meaningless. God is unknowable or perhaps not worth knowing.

I would agree with some here that comparative religion classes might be a good idea. But Squeers’ search for an impartial teacher, I think he/she’s realising is nearly impossible. People can try but they’re never totally impartial, not on this subject.

What’s left is people with the courage of their convictions. Davidf scorns those who don’t connect and communicate, and the rest want to run out of town those like Shine who obviously do.

Dan's state school experience was similar to mine, but I also went to a church school for 5 years as well (the one that performed psychological and physical abuse based on religion).

Dan suggests that a secular school system ... "risks communicating that life is unfathomable, or possibly meaningless. God is unknowable or perhaps not worth knowing."

Dan, welcome to 19th century Philosophy 101.

What bothers you and your ilk that life is unfathomable. The size of the universe and the number infinity are also unfathomable. The quaint 4th century idea of a "Trinity" is most certainly unfathomable. Is perpetuating first century myths and superstitions going to change this or simply give an appearance of meaning? Is your god knowable? If you claim your god is then how about giving us something other than reference to a series of contradictory texts written by unknown people, at the latest, 1700 years ago.

Is life meaningless? Well I don't think so and have quite easily got to my age (60) without needing god/s to give it meaning. Dan I suggest contemplating life without god/s. It is quite OK you know. Us heathens are not the bunch of amoral nihilists like you might think we are, and, if you can't get your head around these concepts then we are sorry for you but please don't foist your superstitious nonsense on our kids.

Hey Dan..

I'll give you 1000 $ecular dollars (worth their weight in truth) for every Australian State or Territory (other than Queensland of course) you can nominate that grants staff teachers the statutory right to "teach Bible lessons" in school hours using a Government recommended Good News Bible and a Government-authored worship-ridden 'curriculum' covering Year 1 - Year 7.

This 'curriculum' Dan..

http://education.qld.gov.au/studentservices/inclusive/religion/ri/faqs/docs/bible_lessons.pdf

Watch the movie and weep Dan..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r8ESBkr128

Poor fellow my Queensland public education system.

This isn't going to go away Dan.. it's not a matter of 'if' anymore.. it's a matter of 'when'.

DeepNortherner,
In regard to changing the Qld education laws, if your goal is to bring the law into line with other states, as you believe those laws in other states to be appropriate and workable, then you have my support.

However, if your aim is to expel all influences of Christianity or other religions from public schools, then you’ll find yourself not only fighting God but also public opinion, and you still won’t be in line with other states, which in practice are more tolerant and temperate than that.

Priscillian, to your set of questions:

Is life meaningless?

No, I don’t think it is. Definitely not so when viewed in the context of eternity, when all things are brought to just conclusion.

I think you are jumping to conclusions about me, or putting words in my mouth, if you think I view you as amoral nihilists. I’m not sure where you got that idea, and I’m sorry if you got that impression from anything I said. Are atheists other than regular people who find meaning in their own set of values? You tell me.

By the way, I liked your Woody Allen quote.

Is God knowable?

Yes, that is the essence of Christianity. God is knowable, not by our own cleverness, but because he has shown himself to us. God does this in ways of his own choosing. In particular, he showed us who he was by adopting human form and likeness (God with skin on, as one child put it) at a particular point in human history. That it was over 17 hundred years ago is not something that any of us had a say in or can change.

What bothers me about life being unfathomable?

As I just said, life is not unfathomable. Does it profit the student for a teacher to tell him that it is? Though there are many mysteries to which we will never understand, there are some things that we claim to know for certain.

In the context of the current discussion, that is, education in public schools, what can we impress on kids to have confidence or certainty about?

We all agree about science and the scientific method. That is why it’s a standard school subject. Though it wouldn’t hurt for kids to learn about the history of science and the religious and philosophical underpinnings that came about historically to allow for science to work.

You call what we believe superstition. In your attempts to expel from the school that which you don’t understand, be careful that you don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.

Dan,
Life has meaning to anybody who attempts to step out of the way of an oncoming car.

I appreciate your views on the metaphysical and I am tempted to join in but perhaps we are straying from the point with our theological ramblings.

Let's see if we can agree on something. We would both agree, I assume, that freedom of religion, as enshrined in our constitution, is a good thing. I hope you would agree that freedom from religion is equally desirable.

May I pose a hypothetical.

Let's say the "Church" of Scientology managed to gain access to state schools using political support and other sneaky means and got to our kids introducing weird concepts like Dianetics, Auditing and Thetans. How happy would you be with this situation?
They could argue like you that they were "educating" children about the "mysteries" and giving "meaning" to their lives. They too would claim that far from being a superstition their beliefs have been revealed as truth by guru L Ron Hubbard. You "shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water", they could argue, just because it is "something you don't understand".

Would you suddenly be siding with us?