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The Forum > Article Comments > Schools, religion and community diversity > Comments

Schools, religion and community diversity : Comments

By Tim Mander, published 17/7/2009

Those who argue for the exclusion of all religion from schools seek to have students blinkered and their education censored.

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TRUTHNOW78: [It's a form of child abuse to NOT teach children about Christianity in State schools. Teaching our children a concept of God is all that separates us from the Nazi's.]

Before we continue, I think it's important that myself and the other contributors here are reassured that the above comment is just a joke.

You ARE joking, right?
Posted by SJ, Friday, 17 July 2009 11:46:40 AM
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Tim Mander needs to find a better dictionary. Secularism is not that which "refuses to accept all forms of religious faith and worship". It is a principle whereby the state does not interfere in the religious business of its citizens (unless of course laws are broken), and does not favour one religion over another. Mander seems to view this as some kind of "enforced atheism" and appears to believe that if you're not advocating a belief in god(s) then you're advocating atheism by default.

Add to this his "atheism is simply a belief" canard. Tim, let me be clear about this. Atheism is a rejection of the claims of theism - a state of disbelief.

Amongst numerous strawmen arguments against Hugh Wilson we have "wants to ban religion" and wants to "an mentors", when all that's advocated is comparitive religion and no religious requirements for mentoring combined with the suggestion that effective mentoring does not require religious underpinnings. Furthermore, Mander argues that "care should be taken that these mentoring roles be restricted to suitable people who are carefully supervised and who work within clear guidelines", when just a few paragraphs earlier he argued that it's OK to bend the rules a bit, as if to say 'So what if a few science teachers include young earth creationism in the sylubus?'. A glaring inconsistency.

Perhaps Tim should keep to refereeing NRL games?
Posted by SJ, Friday, 17 July 2009 12:06:44 PM
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No TRUTHNOW78, the real crime is indoctrinating children with views that are not supported by evidence. In my view indoctrination of a child is a fundamental evil.
If we teach children to respect themselves and other well behaved people and to weigh evidence they will have a more fulfilling life. Religion has always been opposed to genuine knowledge. It was the Christians of Rome who started the destruction of the Library of Alexandria and brought on the Dark Ages.
If thoughtful parents decide to send their children to Sunday School I have no problem but in the 1000 hours or thereabouts of school time each year the State should be teaching children the essentials and one of those essentials is how to think clearly. Religion has no role in that State duty.
Posted by Foyle, Friday, 17 July 2009 12:13:55 PM
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It's a joy to watch this specious nonsense being drawn and quartered by the above posters.
Posted by Sancho, Friday, 17 July 2009 1:06:34 PM
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SU has been a beneficiary of government funds for the "chaplaincy" program. It must have a vested interest in defending the status quo, in order to wheel out its leader. The reality is that teaching religion is intellectual abuse. They teach that the world is 6,000 years old, despite scientific proof to the contrary. They are global warming denialists. I wonder how much industry supports religion as they are global warming denialists. Also religion has been instrumental in promoting a "work ethic" and makes billions of dollars annually through surveillance of welfare recipients and also putting them to forced labor (all in Australia) the forced labor violating their human rights. As its been said, religion is the "handmaiden of the state".

Religion also receives nationally billions of dollars in government subsidy in all churches through income tax exemptions, FBT exemptions, GST input credits, free motor rego, no council rates or charges, no stamp duty when dealing in property or transferring motor cars etc............ all because of a hidden phrase in the Tax Act defining charity to include "Advancement of religion".

The phrase "advancement of religion" ought be deleted from the Tax Act but I doubt any of our major parties would have the fortitude to end this subsidy where the rest of us are forced, by stealth, to pay for religion.
Posted by Inner-Sydney based transsexual, indigent outcast progeny of merchant family, Friday, 17 July 2009 2:02:23 PM
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It is always useful to be kept abreast of the various religions recruitment drives.

Reminds us all to stay alert.

I hadn't heard of Mr Mander until today, but after only five minutes of Googling became rather fascinated.

He became CEO of Queensland's Scripture Union on January 9th 2006.

Given that a) Qld SU sponsor "Queensland's Father of the Year", and b) that Mr Mander was the 2005 winner of this award, I thought I'd trawl around to find out just how many days had elapsed between the two events.

Couldn't be more than a couple of months, I thought, and wondered for an uncharitable moment which of the two events had been decided first.

Only I couldn't find the announcement, anywhere.

So I looked on the Qld SU web site for a list of former winners - there's usually a list, together with a puff piece describing their wonderfulness - again, a complete blank.

But I did find information one one other former "Queensland Father of the Year"

http://www.abc.net.au/queensland/news/200405/s1103835.htm

I thought that would be a good place to stop.

But I did have a quick ponder on the linkages between:

i) Queensland's Scripture Union,
ii) their involvement in - nay, vigorous promotion of - schools' chaplaincy programmes,
iii) the selection criteria for the Queensland Father of the Year award, and
iv) the self-serving banality of the article here on OLO.

What a tangled web these folk weave, to be sure.

And ain't it fascinating when it all presents itself in the same place?
Posted by Pericles, Friday, 17 July 2009 2:45:23 PM
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