Sharkfin,

We had portable-radios for some decades, now we also have portable-TV's, portable-DVD's, portable-phones, portable-computers, and the list keeps growing...

Are people also portable?

Well, you are right: Jews are portable, "Jews" is an object, and so are "Muslims", so you say: "where shall we move the Jews? shall we drop them in this corner.. no, perhaps to the other side, just push a bit to the left, slightly to the back.. in front the the Muslims, no, too far, slightly back...right! stay there!". Why does your suggestion so remind me of the Israeli far-right parties? whose agenda is to transfer all Arabs (including Palestinians and Israeli-Arabs) over to Jordan: just load them on trucks and drive them across the border...

It is insulting to be called a "Jew", this is why Herzl and other zionists wanted to have their own state, a place where they will never again be called Jews (just like black Americans are no longer called "Negros"). You seem to ignore the fact that the inhabitants of Israel are firstly PEOPLE.

Young and healthy people can move and re-settle, not that it is easy for anyone, but older people cannot. Shifting a population, even from one village to the next, is traumatic, let alone across the sea, into a different climate and where different languages are spoken. It also implies the breaking of inter-generation bonds, deserting the helpless older generations.

People have been working hard and building their houses all their lives, made them comfortable, planted trees, surrounded themselves with memories, relatives and friends, now all you can tell them is "Jews - go there, carry your pack once again".

So sorry mate, the Israelis are there to stay, on their land, and fight for it as necessary. In due course, I hope, over some generations, there will no longer be any Jews in Israel - not because the people will go anywhere, but because both they and the rest of the world will forget they ever were Jews.

Yuyutsu, I agree entirely with what you say. The article we are discussing prosposed the question, Should the Jews leave Israel.

I was merely hypothesising about the question.

I was reading the other night as you said, that today many Israelies are either moderate in their religion or not religious at all but this was not the case when they lived in Germany before World War 2 and I still say it was the Germans fear of losing control of their country as the Jews grew into millions that triggered world war 2 and not some vague hatred of the Jewish religion.

Sharkfin,

I just wanted to correct some of the facts that you stated, not that I can see how relevant it is to the current discussion:

When the Nazis came to power, the number of Jews in Germany was only half a million, not millions: the millions were in eastern-european countries, such as Poland, Lithuania, Russia and Hungary. Most German Jews were not religious, while most Jews of Eastern Europe were.

yuyutsu,in a previous post I didnt hesitate to admit the de facto state of Israel.As you say,Israel is here to say.That's fine for the Israelis, but does Israel have to keep setting up newer settlements in the West Bank by driving Palestinians from their homes? That is really theft of real estate isnt it? Over two hundred new settlements have recently been set up. NO ONE can honestly defend such settlements.Where and when does this end?

socratease

Socratease,

I warmly agree with you. Those settlements are disgusting. They should not have been there in the first place.

But please understand: I can't do anything about it, nor can my family. We stand helpless as those bloody settlers do whatever they want and nobody, including the Israeli government or the army has the guts to stop them.

The settlers bring shame on Israel, and I have a problem: my family is there, and they have done nothing wrong, they live in Israel-proper, they hate the settlers just as myself, but when the world condemns Israel for the actions of those settlers, my family is condemned as well; When the world places economic sanctions on Israel due to those settlers, those sanctions hit my family as well; When the world-opinion, due to those settlers, cripples Israel's ability to defend itself, the safety of my family is compromised as well.

I wish I had a magic wand, which I could wave and have the settlers and all their settlements vanish in an instant. Unfortunately I don't.

You have a way of presenting insights we can all learn from,yuyutsu.Thanks for a disarming and charming honest declaration of where you come from.

Do you think that a coalition of the socialist party and the peace now activists can ever win enough votes to do something about those theiving settlers?What is really behind the latest settler expansion?Is it some real estate scam under the disguise of religion?

socratease