Hello Dane,

I understand that you don't like Israel:
I am not going to change your mind, but I'd like to correct some factual errors in your claims (not that it matters anyway):

"Israel, on the other hand, claims to be a liberal Western democracy"

- no, Israel claims to be a Jewish democracy

"No liberal Western democracy would ever kill over 1000 innocent civilians for completely spurious reasons"

- nor did Israel. Its reasons were not spurious: it was protecting its citizens from terrorists who were hiding behind civilans. And by the way, the number of civilians is smaller, and then even, many of them were killed by Hamas Kassam rockets that failed to reach beyond the Gaza borders.

"No liberal Western democracy has Nuremburg-like racial purity laws where marriage to outsiders results in loss of citizenship"

- nor does Israel!

"No liberal western democracy restricts land ownership for minorities"

- Land ownership is very restricted in Israel for everyone. The state owns 95% of the land and citizens may only lease it.

"or delibrately provides minorities with second class healthcare and school facilities"

- That's a problem for everyone living in the periphery, not just minorities: those leaving in the big cities receive better healthcare and schools.

"nowhere is anyone treated as 'untermensch' with their rights and privileges restricted accordingly as in Israel"

Israeli law discriminates against those who did not serve in the army.
All Jews must serve for 3 years, then in reserves. Minorities MAY volunteer if they wish. Personally, if I had the choice, I would never exchange my freedom, becoming a slave for 3+ years and risking my life and limb, for any such privileges. Better be poor, but whole, so tell me now - who is discriminated against?

"8 years and 20 Israelis dead"

- which only shows that Israel knows how to protect its citizens and invested a lot there. Otherwise, do you believe that if Hamas performed better they would stop at 1000, 10000, 100000, 1000000? of course not, they would continue killing to the last Israeli. Israel, OTOH, did stop!

OK Yuyutsu has corrected Dane so I won't bother.

Are most of these anti-Israel posters anti-semetic in general..that's the question? Or just fantasists and socialist dreamers.? Hmmm. same thing really...

Since the pre WWII European Jews discovered that being fully integrated/productive/outstanding members of their societies came to nought when the socialists (the nationalist ones in Germany etc..the Internationalists in the USSR) decided to exterminate them, they probably don't feel as confident that the future would be so rosy if they reintegrated there. So where to?

The US? Australia? What about a homeland in the Kimberley, as was once proposed? Nuhh. Let's make them go back to wherever they came from originally..be it the Middle Eastern Arab Countries which tried to wipe them out (Please read up on Yasser Arafat's Uncle, Mohammed Amin al-Husayni. Grand Mufti of Jerusalem 1921-1948 Palestinian Nationalist and co-architect with Hitler of the final solution) or somewhere else where the inflamed muslim populations are currently attacking synagogues etc (France?).

Read up on "the Battle of Rorke's drift". Kinda like "the Alamo" but with a different outcome. Why didn't the Zulus just suggest the defenders leave the stockade so they could be slaughtered in the open? What a great idea!

Now I know all these lefties wanting an end to Israel don't want an end to Jews. They just want them to come out in the open and lay down their weapons...for a little "chat". Nothing wrong with that, eh?. Cheers.

Punter57...I don't think Rorke's Drift is a good example. A bunch of invaders were being assaulted by the owners of the land. And the invaders won, albeit in a fairly spectacular way. (and it made for a good movie). Are you suggesting that the Israelis are the one's baled up in the old hopsital fighting for their lives (ie..the invaders) or the ones surrounding the them and wanting the invaders off their land?

Dear Yuyutsu,

Your post, as always, is well reasoned
and valid.

I also hope that the state of Israel
will continue to exist, side by side,
in peace with its neighbours.

So many have died for the sake of this
homeland.

What is needed is a new leadership.
A leadership that does not have the "old
mindset of war" ( as the newly elected
American President described the past White
House enclave). Israel needs a leadership that
will give hope to its people, peace, and justice,
and co-existence with its neighbours.

It's not a big ask, but it will take bold
progressive leadership for that to occur,
with the support of the international community,
and the new leadership of the US.

Phil Matemain, Get a grip, and have a read. The situation was much more complex and analogous at RD with the Palestinian/Israeli conflict than you pretend.

The Zulus were NOT in KwaZulu. They had left KwaZulu to enter Natal to attack Rorke's Drift which was across the "border" (the river). After defeating an actual invasion force (not the garrison at Rorke's Drift) the king of the Zulus, Cetswayo, issued specific orders that the Zulus were NOT to enter Natal which he accepted as "British". He wanted a negotiated peace.

These warriors..somewhat like Hamas, had decided that all British must die regardless of where they were. The king was just a sellout....like Fatah. Fancy accepting peace and a "state" for each group!!

OK. So let's not get bogged down. Them's the facts. Had any dolt suggested the defenders leave their defensive positions it would've been suicide...and laughable. All I ask is that anti-semites stop being so pedantically and, spectacularly, muddle-headed in demanding that Jews offer themselves up for slaughter. Come up with something practical. Cheers.

Dear Francis

'God' hasn't done anything - there is no such thing.
It is the nonsensical, irrational, and totally unsubstantiated belief in the Abrahamic version that is largely the problem. As to the tired old 'what about' argument re Stalin, Pol-Pot etc, the argument does not merit considertion, except to point out that Hitler was a professed christian until the very end as were his many henchmen, and the outrageous excesses of the remainder were not religiously inspired - unlike the blood soaked ministrations of the church. The essential point for those who can understand it, is that religious belief and administration of power are two utterly seperate aspects of the human experience.
'The devil quotes scripture to his own ends.' - and frequently does!