Interesting article...

It takes courage to write about this topic,
because it's usually too emotive.
Usually you pay a price to enter into any debate,
regarding Israel,look at people like Robert Manne,
Arnold Zable, and Antony Loewenstein. Their opinions
in the past have sparked a furore.

Congratulations David for being so open and honest.

Personally, I have always believed in the state of
Israel, but not at the expense of the Palestinian
people. I had always assumed that they could co-exist
side by side. Apparently they can't. But I had no idea
that there were problems among the Jewish settlers as
well.

I do remember reading about Alex Dafner (Yiddish show
on SBS Radio) who although he doesn't believe in
Zionism as an idealogy acknowledges that a state
is central to the Jewish people. However he was critical of
Israel in its current form:

"It's not socialist; there is real bigotry,
religious intolerance and a lack of respect for fellow
Jews. My friends in Israel say there is a need for
two or three states in Israel: one for religious,
one for secular and one for the in-between..."

Many secular Jews feel that since the end of
World War II, the place of Jews in all
Western societies has been unproblematic, and they
charge Israel with greed and arrogance for not
returning all of the occupied territories. Many
feel that it is a betrayal of their belief in
liberal democracy to believe that Jews are still
under threat and therefore need a homeland of
their own.

Should Jews leave Israel? That is a decision that
only they can make. But nobody would blame them if
they left such a troubled part of the world for
a better life elsewhere.

Where does I AM fit in all these words.

Americans must leave the US immediately because those hurricanes and tornadoes are simply unbearable and become ever fiercer with global warming.

Indonesians, Japanese and Peruvians should leave their countries immediately for the risk of earthquakes.

Chinese are reminded that with such air-pollution, their lives are going to be very short and miserable, unless the leave soon.

Those of low-lying countries such as Bangaladesh should leave immediately before the sea-level rises.

Are any Africans still there despite the hunger and disease?

Russians and Canadians - better forget about the cold!

Australians - well, in the north we have cyclones and flooding, while in the rest of the country we have terrible fires, and with climate-change it is going to get even worse: we better get out of here!

Do you know of any place on earth or beyond that is free of trouble?

So Israel has its wars, both the well-known external wars, and the less-known internal ones. It also daily faces difficult moral conflicts which most of the rest of the world does not need to contend with: nevertheless, it's a thriving, well-developed country whose standard and quality of life is way, as well as its humanitarian values and standards are well above the world's average.

I do not attribute this success to a miracle, but rather to hard work, determination and courage.

Should Jews leave Israel?

I find this a trappy question, such as "have you stopped beating your wife?": damned if you answer 'Yes', damned if you answer 'No'.

It is cruel and ridiculous to ask people to desert the beautiful country which they built by the sweat of their brow, where several generations grew up, the only place that lives their culture, the only place they can call home. On the other hand, it is about time for this archaic term, "Jews", to fade away.

David, you mentioned Herzl (the legendary founder of zionism), but the one thing this Herzl wanted more then anything is, to have a spot on earth where he will no longer be called a "Jew".

No

Dane, you say - We have a black president in 2009 while Britain had a Jewish PM over 150years ago it will be some time before a Muslim becomes president or PM.

If a Muslim is given the right by Western democracy to campaign to become president of the United States is it not then fair to ask the question when will an American or Brit be granted the right by the Arabs to become leader of one of their countries?

You are a bit one-sided I think in ignoring the blatant racism of the Arabs. America and the West although still struggling with these issues are centuries ahead of the Arabs when it comes to allowing other cultures to stand for leadership of their countries.

sharkfin,

No it is not fair to ask when will an American or Brit become president of a muslim country. Muslim countries don't claim to be liberal democracies and we don't treat them like fellow democracies. They claim to be Islamic states and that is what they are.

Israel, on the other hand, claims to be a liberal Western democracy. This is patently untrue. No liberal Western democracy would ever kill over 1000 innocent civilians for completely spurious reasons. No liberal Western democracy has Nuremburg-like racial purity laws where marriage to outsiders results in loss of citizenship. No liberal western democracy restricts land ownership for minorities, or delibrately provides minorities with second class healthcare and school facilities. While significant disadvantage exits among liberal democracies, nowhere is anyone treated as 'untermensch' with their rights and privileges restricted accordingly as in Israel.

The notion that Jews should leave Israel is a red herring too. It plays on this 'existential' threat hysteria that the Israeli PR machine spews out. Israeli is by far the most powerful country in the region and is going nowhere. If it weren't so sad it would be funny - 8 years and 20 Israelis dead versus 3 weeks of an Israeli offensive and over 1000 Palesinians dead. It would be frightening to think of the thousands and thousands of Palestinians who have been killed by Israel in the same 8 year time period. Yet every time we turn on the telly we get some hysterical Israeli spin merchant saying Hamas wants to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth! Then we see pictures of Israeli tank drivers giving the V for victory coming out of Gaze - they are proud of killing children; they feel strong again now.

It really makes you sick.