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The Forum > Article Comments > Angry, frustrated and powerless > Comments

Angry, frustrated and powerless : Comments

By Nina Funnell, published 9/12/2008

Vicarious trauma: the trauma incited by an assault is rarely confined to the victim alone.

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It would be very interesting to conduct interveiws using a lie detector of alleged victims and alleged perpetrators.

I wonder what the results would be?

One group of rad feminist defined any form of penetrative sex as rape, I think it was MacKinnon who defined rape as occuring any time that a woman did not initiate the sexual encounter.

Now the goal posts are getting moved even furhter, in that there must be a clear concise verbal consent.
Posted by JamesH, Saturday, 13 December 2008 6:22:02 AM
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James H.

Yes, I think you are right. McKinnon did say something like that, which, as a woman, I find TOTALLY offensive. It suggests that women have no agency in their sexuality and that only male-on-male sex can be egalitarian.

As for your comments about lie detectors though, I'd mention the fact that under-reporting, not falsified reporting is the biggest issue facing rape survivors. It's estimated that only 15% of rapes go reported. (though of course this is an impossible thing to estimate- by definition). In my situation (although I was not technically raped) i was able to report for the following reasons
1)I was bashed (this meant there were clear signs and no one was going to disbeleive me... but this is highly atypical)
2) I did not know my attacker (once again- atypical- most victims have a sense of loyalty to the attacker or his family/ friend network)
3) I was not technically raped (so I knew I wouldn't have to do a rape kit).
4) I did not blame myslef in the slightest- I felt no guilt or shame and in the subsequent therapy which I did for almost a yr, my main issue was "anger management" (dealing with revenge fantasies)
Once again- atypical...
Posted by ninaf, Saturday, 13 December 2008 6:59:10 AM
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An interesting article, Nina. I sympathise with your experience.

As you have already said, though, your was an assault first and foremost rather than a rape, whatever the perpetrator may have intended. That experience of assault is vastly more common among men than among women and many more women have the vicarious trauma of watching a son or husband lying bloodied and bruised than ever experience any form of violence themselves, yet there is an emormous expenditure on advertising, police resources, legal support and so on directed solely and specifically at assaults on women, while assaults on men go virtually without recognition. Often, the advertising includes significant distortions of the facts, minimising the male experience and talking up the far-less-common female one.

Furthermore, as has been said by others, the focus on male violence against women has lead to a situation in which a man can be punished quite severely merely because a woman makes an allegation - no actual evidence is required for the full force of AVO laws to swing into action, with all of the attendant consequences for the accused. In my case, I spent many thousands of dollars fighting a case that had no basis in fact and in which no allegation of actual violence or threats were made, merely a statement that I had raised my voice.

I'd have liked to see your article, personal as it was, making a more general comment on violence, rather than the gendered statement it is. I acknowkledge your attempts to be specific about the small class of perpetrators, but those sorts of comments are likely to be lost in the quoting if your work is picked up by some of the vested interests who prefer propaganda to facts.
Posted by Antiseptic, Saturday, 13 December 2008 10:26:57 AM
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Dear Nina
your comments about 'freezing' are well taken and noted. There was a girl at my gym who demonstrated considerable kickboxing skills on the bag...(and with whom I got along well as a friend) and one day I did a bit of a naughty thing..I kind of feigned rushing grabbing her (in the gym) and she did exactly what you did.. 'froze/cringed'. I never touched her.. just made out like I was going to... She didn't mind, and it underlined in her own mind that the better strategy is to keep out of danger rather than fight it off.

I think more training can do the trick...but it's not a simple process and must be ramped up from basic to more realistic to testing moves out in real life environments..like on a street.

This is much too big a task for most and there is always a danger of overconfidence leading to risk taking.

I hope that the female members of our human family will always consider the risks before venturing into unsafe territory. No amount of education or public shaming is likely to stop a bloke high on speed and maybe porn from doing what he wants. Or.. even just a person with a desire to conquer women.
Posted by Polycarp, Saturday, 13 December 2008 6:57:54 PM
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In my own search for answers and understanding, one of a number of books I have read is Katie Rophie, The Morning After.

Lipstick Feminism also makes for some intriguing reading, even though it is old. Although I found it a hard slog.

< I'd mention the fact that under-reporting, not falsified reporting is the biggest issue facing rape survivors. It's estimated that only 15% of rapes go reported. (though of course this is an impossible thing to estimate- by definition). >

If that is the case then how do we reduce the incidence of sexual assault in our society, the only things I can come up with, are either separating men and women, or castrating the male population.

From my understanding is that the definition of rape has been expanded from " the use of force against her will/consent" to include perhaps any type of heterosexual behaviour.

For example some people will use alcohol or drugs as a social lubricant and disinhibitor, now new laws are being passed that if a woman is under the influence then her consent is not valid.

Even in a stable relationships, sexual approaches are at times unwelcome, so is it not possible then, an attempt at seduction can become sexual assault.
Posted by JamesH, Saturday, 13 December 2008 8:41:12 PM
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In terms of gang rape Id say Middle Eastern for sure are over represented in gang rape. Surprise surprise Middle Eastern boys were responsible for a gang rape at a Water Park.

If you are walking through a park at night and attacked by a stranger Id say for sure a Middle Eastern man would be disproportionately likely to be the offender.

Compare this to the number of street rapist Asians there are. There are far more Asian men in Sydney and Australia but Arabs are heavily over represented in rape. I chose Asians because in terms of population they are both minorities in Australia.

Just the other day an Infamous Muslim rapist of northern Melbourne had his sentence increased.

A carload of arabs driving past is far more likely to try to abduct you than a carload of non-arab men.
Posted by othermonty, Sunday, 14 December 2008 8:03:44 PM
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