Hi Nina,

Sorry I probably ought to have thought a bit more about my expression when I used the word 'degrading'. Of course you have nothing to be ashamed of as the perpetrator does.

The conversation of psychological v physical force or intimidation is an interesting one. I wonder where the line is drawn? A person (male or female, adult or child) can be physically forced but then what about when there is just a threat of violence or the victim feels physically intimidated? I suppose these issues are defined in law but in reality it seems a very muddy area.

Calling coercion through threat of reputational (or other) harm 'convincing'a woman to have sex, seems part of the problem rather than part of the solution.

Seduction v rape is interesting. It is hard to see how being influenced by your own desire is the same as being influenced by fear of reputational (or other) harm. If a man is forced into sexual actions by fear then surely that is assault but if he is seduced? I guess the power-differential is important. A child could be seduced by an adult but it does not make it any less of a rape because there is no capacity for consent.

Presumably a man has the capacity to give or withhold consent no matter how stirred up he is as that is what differentiates him from a child- the capacity for consent. I guess a woman could threaten to falsely 'out' a man as gay to 'convince' him to have sex and I would be interested to know the legal status of such an occurrance.

Nice twisting there Rosie.

'Calling coercion through threat of reputational (or other) harm 'convincing'a woman to have sex'

I never said that.

With regards to rape and seduction, lets look at two examples.

A woman seduces a man who doesn't want to have sex with her. They get drunk, she strips off, strips his clothes off and turns him on, manipulates him with her hands, and pushes the issue until he gives in. The next morning he regrets this, but he never explicitly said no. I would say the man made the decision to have sex. No Rape. Man takes responsibility.

Reverse the roles, where the woman is drunk and doesn't explicitly say no, and we have a rape. She can 'feel intimidated' into this, and it's up to the man to take responsibility for ensuring she really really wants to go through with it. Man takes responsibility.

I think your multicultural views by proxy will make Aussie women less safe with the influx and high birth rate of Africans and Muslims there will be much more sexual assault in Australia in the future.

To avoid Middle Eastern Men is not racist against Arabs. If you see an arab walking down the street in Sydney chances are he is from a socially challenged background (eg. the poor farmers who immigrated from Lebanon after 1975) and is probably more likely to commit violent crime.

Ummm... Othercon? What "multicultural views by proxy" are you referring to exactly? I specifically did not get into the whole "muslims are rapists" debate (despite the fact that the guy who attacked me was 'of middle eastern appearance') for the following reasons.
1) In Australia intra-racial rape is far more common than inter-racial rape (i.e. anglo men rape anglo women more than men of other ethnic decent do) and this makes sense given that in 70% of cases the vic is raped by someone she knows (usually a family member or friend) and these tend to be of same ethnic origin
2)If we're going to go the whole Alan Jones these "thugs come to our country and rape our women" line of argument then lets not forget all those charming anglo men who have raped Aboriginal women
3)Me, Tegan Wagner and other women have had our experiences hijacked by those with a conservative, ideologically unsound, racist agenda. The problem is GENDER INEQUALITY- stop reframing rape as a racial problem.

Yes, I know certain groups have more misogynistic cultures and this is messed up- but deportment is not the answer as (as I mentioned) most rapes against white women in this country are done by white men...

just saying...

Usual Suspect: << A woman seduces a man who doesn't want to have sex with her. They get drunk, she strips off, strips his clothes off and turns him on, manipulates him with her hands, and pushes the issue until he gives in. >>

This reads more like an individual sexual fantasy than a real life scenario. I don't suppose you'd like to provide some examples where this situation actually occurred?

othercon: << ... with the influx and high birth rate of Africans and Muslims there will be much more sexual assault in Australia in the future >>

What ninaf said. This is just an unsubstantiated racist slur intended to deflect attention from her argument about gender inequality. Pathetic.

Im just saying there will be more rape for sure a disproportionate amount by chosen groups. This is not to say all are rapists.