Marilyn

I do not know why I bother, but here we go again. It may or may not be true that some Jews in Israel have burned bibles, no doubt that has also happened in Australia amongst some strange sects, this should not cast doubts about Israel as a whole.

You mention that all Israelis do military service, actually there are some exceptions, but a large number of countries have universal military service, including Switzerland, there is nothing unusual about that. And yes soldiers are trained to kill, not nice but if Australia and the US had not done this you would have been eating sashimi much sooner than you expected.

Amongst the population required for military service are included, Christians, Baha'i, and Druze, while Muslims are exempted, nevertheless some apply and still do service in the IDF. None of these could be seriously considered to be active Zionists. Perhaps they are motivated by expulsion from their Muslim homelands or just using their judgment.

Amongst Israel's neighbours attempts to kill Jewish populations have been around since long before 1948. Hamas is indoctrinating children to act as suicide murderers promising the poor gullible kids the entry to Paradise for their efforts. Even the mothers of these kids have appeared on TV encouraging their own in this ghastly operation. This is not Zionist propaganda, it is from Al Jazeera which I think even you will admit is not a Zionist mouthpiece.

You should admit that Israel does have a problem with neighbours from hell.

Also the King of Jordan did give written permission for a Jewish state in the area. His successor changed this.

Marilyn you may also ponder about the apparent ethnic cleansing of non-Muslims from some of these neighbouring lands. Have you ever wondered why Bethlehem and Lebanon no longer have Christian majorities, those numbers have declined alarmingly?

Perhaps you think that even that is the fault of Zionism!

Have you heard of Brigitte Gabriel? Read her comments on the matter, you will then be more enlightened. And she is not Jewish either.

See http://www.navyseals.com/brigitte-gabriels-speech-delivered-intelligence-summit-washington-dc

Dear Marilyn

I noted with interest your comment:

<<the non-state is still a savage place where Orthodox jews burn bibles.>>

I presume by this you mean the 'Christian' version.. perhaps the New Testament.

I guess you quoted this in order to demonstrate that our 'Christian' support for Israel is thus misguided?

The truth is, we follow Christ, and he taught us to love our enemies.
When people burn a bible, OR a missionary and his 3 sons (Hindu fanatics -Graham Staines, from my own tradition)
Or when tribes people spear and hack missionaries to death, we often find their offspring, or widowed spouses taking up the work and many thousands being saved as they see the true love and forgiveness of Christ at work in real life.

While I do indeed make some pretty red hot statements about Israel, the Middle East etc.. I usually couch them in language which are simply based on a 'human' perspective which is based on history and human nature.

The Biblical view of Israel is that no matter what man does, IF..God is doing something through them now, nothing will stop it. Those who think they can help.. are kidding themselves.

The real biblical scenario for Israel is rather tragic.. and the last thing you see prior to Christ returning will be a defeat of Israel, the establishment of a desecration of a re-built temple, and unimaginable strife for the world.

This scenario is based on a rather speculative view of 'Last things' and is by no means conclusive.

"All" have sinned, according to the Bible, Arab, Jews, and Gentile, and all equally need the Salvation which is found in Christ alone.

BOAZ_David wrote:

"The truth is, we follow Christ, and he taught us to love our enemies."

The truth is that you don't follow Christ. If you followed Christ you would not reject his religion. If you followed Christ you would also be a Jew.

BOAZ_David also wrote:

"The real biblical scenario for Israel is rather tragic.. and the last thing you see prior to Christ returning will be a defeat of Israel, the establishment of a desecration of a re-built temple, and unimaginable strife for the world."

Christ will not return. A real messiah would have got it right the first time and would not need to come again. There is and will be no messiah at all. It is a myth that started after the ancient kingdom was broken up into two parts, Israel and Judah. The myth started in the hope of a person who would unify the split kingdom..

BOAZ_David also wrote:

"When people burn a bible, OR a missionary and his 3 sons (Hindu fanatics -Graham Staines, from my own tradition)
Or when tribes people spear and hack missionaries to death, we often find their offspring, or widowed spouses taking up the work and many thousands being saved as they see the true love and forgiveness of Christ at work in real life."

Burning a book is not the same as killing a missionary. It is terrible that Hindu fanatics burned Graham Staines and his sons. There were two sons burned, Timothy and Philip, not three as you wrongly stated.

Graham Staines had the right to risk his life where he knew there were Hindu fanatics. He had no right to take his sons with him and risk their lives. If he was aware of the danger he was an irresponsible fool to put his sons' lives at risk.

Perhaps the Christian churches could have been more aware of the fact that India has been liberated from the Christian British Empire and didn't want missionaries. They have their own superstitions.

Just read all these comments regarding the poor nation Israel being picked on again by those darstadly lefties.
And a funny thing occured to me,
If it wasnt for Hitler,there'd be NO ISRAEL today.
I wonder how many people have ever thought of this little enlightenment ? No doubt the Palestinians have, and if anyone should hate Hitler, I guess it'd have to be them, after all, they lost the most out of all this.
For myself, I'm sick and tired of listening to the constant bleating emanating from that evil place.
A place that should the money supply dry up from it's chief sponsor, I'd dare say, the so called nation would simply disappear if it was left to it's own devices.
I guess one could define that as 'putting your money where your mouth is' something like that.
I also suspect, there are many like myself all over the World, who are very much tired of the antics emanating from that evil place, and I also suspect, that unless they change their ways drasticaly in the very near future, all the sympathy they have reaped over the last 60 years will evaporate.
It'll be very interesting then, to see how things develop, when for the first time in their existance, they will have to stand on their own two feet for a change.
There's nothing like the common denominator to make us all equal.
Hope I live to see it come about.

Boaz_David wrote:

"The real biblical scenario for Israel is rather tragic.. and the last thing you see prior to Christ returning will be a defeat of Israel, the establishment of a desecration of a re-built temple, and unimaginable strife for the world.

This scenario is based on a rather speculative view of 'Last things' and is by no means conclusive."

You are right. It is speculative. However, such apocalyptic nonsense motivates Christian Zionists who oppose every move Israel makes for peace. Religion is a great source of strife. If only the Christian, Jewish and Muslim superstitions could be done away with then they could fight over water and oil without the additional viciousness of religion.

Boaz_David also wrote:

"All" have sinned, according to the Bible, Arab, Jews, and Gentile, and all equally need the Salvation which is found in Christ alone.

That is more nonsense. Superstition enslaves. Reason liberates. All need the salvation which is found in reason alone. May you be liberated from your superstition.

From the third to the eighteenth century a religion called Manichaeism existed. At one time its range extended from Spain to China. Now only a few people are aware of it. Religions come and go although they may hang around for years. Eventually Christianity will end up like Manichaeism, but some new superstition will replace it.

Logic, if other people were bulldozing your homes, killing your children, stealing your land and resources based on the bogus notion of some old book would you sit around and take it.

For pete's sake will you people get over all this biblical nonsense. The bible is a series of parables, it is not real.