cont'

You say>> “I reckon he's seen how Hezbollah's influence has increased in Lebanon and that country has astonishingly genuinely started on a path to peace and living in harmony since the latest Israeli agression and madness”

3. You must be joking, where did you pull this gem from? It was only a couple of days ago that Hezbollah moved its troops into Beirut and locked it down, fighting as it went. In fact, insane but true, Hezbollah is better armed than the Lebanese army.

4. You forget also that Israel has already made peace with some of her other neighbours, Including Egypt, who received the Sinai back in return for peace.

You say>>”. I reckon YA and all Syrians are watching what's going on in Iraq. And so are the Fundi's in Iran. I think it's scaring all them dictators and fundi's”

5. You have no idea at all, do you. Iran is rubbing its hands together with glee. One of the most dominant parties in the new Iraqi gov’t is the ex SCIRI, The Supreme Council for the Islamic Republic in Iraq. This is an organization formed in Iran during the Iran/Iraq war and its purpose is to spread the Iranians Islamic republic into Iraq. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Council_for_the_Islamic_Revolution_in_Iraq

You say >>” A two State Palestine at '67 borders is probably Israels best result, a single state is probably the world's, the region's individuals and peaces best hope.

This is just rubbish. Palestinians, along with many other muslims, are taught at school to hate Jews. You should do a little investigation into how Hamas have treated their own people since they have been in control of the Gaza Strip, then tell me how exactly the Israelis will fare under Hamas rule. You are either too lazy to read Hamas Charter or don’t want to because it might spoil your preconceived notions. Anyone who has read the charter could not seriously suggest a single state with a straight face. And anyone who thinks they could stop Hamas from controlling a single state is in fairy land.

david f

I hope you do not believe the propaganda that Israel is some sort of state just for Jews. Have you noticed that the Head of State in Australia, Britain and Canada is also the head of the Anglican Church, or that the big majority of the populations of these countries are Christian. Does that make these countries Christian states?

The Anglican Church believes that only Christians can enter heaven, so the Queen does not expect to see you there, and she is our head of state.

Israel is simply a state with a Jewish majority, and it wants to keep it that way. In the same way Western states with Christian majorities resent and act to stop any other group such as Muslims from becoming a majority. Israel is not ruled by Talmudic (traditional Jewish) law but by a form of British law created by its citizens through the democratic process. Just as Australians do not always like other groups different Israeli groups may dislike each other, in fact a number of Australians make it clear that they dislike Jews, while Camden just voted out the establishment of an Islamic school.

The important thing is that neither country discriminates in law against any group, all have an equal vote, and there are parliamentarians from all groups.

Israel made it a point to allow groups such as the Baha'i and the Druze to re-establish in Israel to avoid persecution in other countries. They are not Jewish.You should save your ire for places like Saudi Arabia where Churches, Synagogues etc are actually illegal, or Iran where Jewish schools are forced to open on the Jewish sabbath and made to have Muslims as Headmasters.

Dear Logic:

A country is not a Christian country simply because the majority of the population is Christian. A country is a Christian country if Christianity is given any special status in law. Since the head of state in Britain must be a Christian the state is Christian. The situation is slightly different in Australia since the representative of the head of state need not be Christian.

Logic wrote:

"Israel is simply a state with a Jewish majority, and it wants to keep it that way."

To do that Israel has a discriminatory Law of return that allows Jews to come in with fewer restrictions than non-Jews.

Both Australia and Israel do not have separation of religion and state. Australia funds sectarian schools and has a School Chaplaincy program. Both of which are actions that discriminate. In the US it is illegal for taxpayer funding to go to sectarian schools. It is part of democracy to have separation of religion and state. In Israel secular Jews, Haredim (ultra-Orthodox Jews) and non-Jewish children go to different schools. There is very little mixing.

Israel does not have civil marriage. One of the rights in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights is to marry the person of your choice.

Israel even discriminates among Jews. Judaism has various branches, but only the rites performed by the Orthodox are recognised as legal. Australia does not discriminate among different kinds of Jews, but Israel does.

Logic also wrote:

"The important thing is that neither country discriminates in law against any group, all have an equal vote, and there are parliamentarians from all groups."

I have cited the lack of civil marriage, the different status of Orthodoxy and other forms of Judaism and the Law of Return as examples of Israeli discrimination in law. In addition there is de facto discrimination. A Knesset inquiry into public services revealed that significantly less per capita was spent in providing infrastructure and public services in Arab than in Jewish villages.

Paul

I don't think you want peace at all.

I think you only want a peace that allows and accepts Israeli expansionism!

To pre-empt you ... no I don't want a peace that sees Israel wiped out. So don't bother with that furphy.

keith

Reality is that a single state solution would mean measures taken against Jews. There is in fact not a single Arab state where Jews feel completely safe. That includes secular non-religious Jews like myself. Therein lies the problem.

david f

I would agree that lack of a civil marriage is a problem and that should not be. Reform Jews can be married in a Reform Synagogue but have to have a second marriage with the orthodox. In Australia the lack of gay marriages is also a problem for many. We are ahead of Israel but not perfect yet. Overseas marriages are recognized in Israel, also the society accepts living together which is not illegal. Muslim Christian and Druze marriages are also recognized. That is hardly a definition of a theocracy.

All of that compares favourably with other countries in the area.

"less per capita was spent in providing infrastructure and public services in Arab than in Jewish villages." Sounds like pork barreling, does that not occur in Australia?

The Law of Return is not unlike the White Australia policy or the "We decide who comes to Australia" election slogan which was highly successful. Name a single democracy which does not have discrimination in its immigration. Surely it is obvious that Israel wants a majority of its population to be Jewish just as Australia wants the majority to be Christian. because of the disparity between numbers of Jews and Christians is so great that policy is more obvious in Israel's case.

The Queen is our head of state.

Why do you insist on higher standards for Israel than for anyone else?

Logic wrote:

"Why do you insist on higher standards for Israel than for anyone else?"

Your question is a "When did you stop beating your wife?" question. I am for separation of religion and state and no discrimination among people on the basis of religion or ethnicity everywhere whether it is Israel, Australia, the US or anywhere else. You made the false statement that Israeli law does not discriminate. When I pointed out their laws do discriminate you come back with that question.

I want Israel to observe the same standards that I would like every country to observe.