Paul, it simply did not happen as you rant on about. Israel attacked all her neighbours, they knew they were not going to be attacked but did it anyway. You really have to stop living in fantasy land.

If all these armies had been amassing to attack Israel it would have been impossible for Israel to dismantle and bomb to bits all of their airforces in a few hours and get away with it.

Israel is not a state, she has no borders and no constitution and saying you can be a state on someone else's land without their permission was never allowed and nor should it be.

Yes I wonder what jobs these armchair lefties actually do. Who pays for their dinner?

If they are allowed their way it might happen that they learn the truth about Islamist jihad in a suicide bomb. They don't have to fear Israeli jihad, that never happens, unless you actually believe in the fantastic hypothesis that 9/11 was conducted by Israel. But Australians have already died at Bali, of course they will blame that on Israel.

Fortunately these idiots have no currency amongst the Australian public or its leaders, perhaps the nicest thing would be to pity them.

Yes I am being nasty, but I am sick to death of these stupid rantings.

Marilyn

Do you have a Pentium inside your computer? That was developed in Israel. Do you have Windows XP? That was developed in Israel. There are dozens of life saving medical procedures that come from Israel. Israel supplies power to the Gaza strip. It does this even when its school children are fired at by hundreds of Gazan rockets.

Not bad for a non state. And like the UK and Canada it has no written constitution. Unlike Australia it was founded with large tracts of land legally owned by Jews, including those from ancient communities whose families had lived there since biblical times. Of course your extremist Islamist friends will tell you that the temple was built by Muslims some 1000 years before Mohamed actually lived.

Tell me one thing Marilyn where would you rather live? Israel, UK, Canada, Cuba or Saudi Arabia?

Also tell me this. The Baha'i and the Druze have found refuge in Israel. Do you want them to leave as well? They are also in the IDF.

LOGIC..welcome back :)

David F .. I almost had that same conversation with a lady at gym today..

She, like you, and many others on OLO, see 'Christianity' in the actions of the large Western nations which have a Judao/Christian religious tradition.

In all seriousness, I agree with you about the 'intrigue' embarked on by large nations, but it is not limited to just those you mentioned. It is universal. The Suez canal construction is illustrative.

1/ Ferdinand De Lesseps begins seeking permission to build the canal.
2/ Britain opposes this because of her maritime interests.
3/ The Ottoman sultan opposes it because it causes a barrier between him and his vassal..Egypt.

From those postures of 2 and 3, war could have broken out, and was threatened. In other words..what you described as the 'bad guys' (US Bush etc) was really a commentary on 'human nature' (of any political or social system)

To truly understand Christianity, you need to refer to the Gospels, and the writings of the New Testament. When you do this, you will see clearly that there is no concept of a 'Christian' State. There is only a kingdom of God, where Christ dwells in our hearts through faith, and moves us to do good, and proclaim the Gospel for the salvation of mankind. Christianity is about one thing.. 'reconciliation' between man and God.
All that you described, only became common after Constantine, 300 yrs after Christ. This is where politicians and emperors seek to use the faith for their own material ends.

I urge you to read the Gospel of Luke for a good detailed account of Christ's life and mission. Then, Acts to see the young Church developed in a hostile environment.

Dear Boaz_David,

Your suggestion that Muslims and Jews convert to your faith is intolerance of those who believe differently.

An idea is mainly defined by what its followers do. Marxism take meaning as Marxists practice it. I again cite Matthew 7:16 “Ye shall know them by their fruits." which specifically says that. What do Christians do? That defines Christianity - not scripture.

Why should anyone have faith either in Christianity or Marxism? Practitioners of both say that they want the best for humanity. The record of both is a story of massive oppression. Both are intolerant of those who see things differently.

I have read the Gospels and consider them fairy tales. The fruits of Christianity are exhibited in its history. Actually the New Testament was not written until sometime after the death of Jesus.

I suggest four books to you.

"Constantine's Sword" by John Carroll who was a Catholic priest. That tells of the militarism, intolerance and Jew hatred of Christianity since Constantine.

"Confessions" of Saint Augustine. I was impressed by his obvious intelligence as he speculated on time and space. However, he also showed an unreasonable guilt that he has passed on to Christianity in the doctrine of Original Sin. The idea that humans are born in sin is an ugly one.

"The Closing of the Western Mind" by Charles Freeman. This tells how the adoption of Christianity by the Roman Empire brought in the Dark Ages as the faith demanded by Christianity destroyed the spirit of inquiry and questioning in the classical world.

"The Conversion of Europe from Paganism to Christianity: 371-1386" by Richard Fletcher. 371 was the date that the Roman Empire adopted Christianity as a state religion. With the exception of Ireland the rest of Europe was converted by violence. 1386 was the date that Lithuania became Christian. There were a series of Crusades against Lithuania with great bloodshed for no other reason than that the Lithuanians wished to keep their status as a multicultural nation that tolerated all faiths. Some of my ancestors come from Lithuania.

“Ye shall know them by their fruits."

Paul.L: "For the period of known history the blockading of a countries' ports has been considered an act of war and casus-belli."

In that case, Iraq under Saddam would have been entirely justified in attacking the various nations supplying the UN-sanctioned blockade for years. Is that your contention? After all, Iraq was in a dire situation after years of that blockade, much worse than anything Israel has seen. Would Iraq have been wrong to launch strikes at the US, Australia, Britain, etc? If not, why was Israel justified in '67?

Paul.L: "Israel is a state, no matter how much you soft-lefties want it to not be so."

Why trot out this old canard that no one mentions except pro-Zionists desperate to find something to attack others with, regardless of its basis in reality? All anyone here has suggested they want for Israel is for it to behave like a nation that is worthy of all the effort and angst that its formation and short history have caused. So far, it's not doing well on that front. Frankly, the pro-Zionist lobby would be best focussing on ways to heal the growing rift between their tired propaganda and the reality of the failing Israeli experiment.
Oh yeah, you could try doing a bit of thinking whilst you're at it: the current foam-flecked tirades don't seem to have had any considered input at all.