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The Forum > Article Comments > Israel revisited > Comments

Israel revisited : Comments

By David Rothfield and Robin Rothfield, published 22/5/2008

As Israel turns 60 there are many reasons why Israelis might celebrate. But there are also reasons for some soul searching.

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The article contained:

"We talked about these issues and others with Hassan Jabarin, the Director of Adalah, The Legal Centre for Minority Rights in Israel. He told us that Arab schools receive only half the government budget per capita that Jewish schools receive. Most of the Negev Bedouin population live in shameful conditions of poverty and deprivation."

Arab children and Jewish children in general go to separate schools. They grow up separated and can be expected to regard those not of their community as the OTHER. That would still be so even if funding per capita would be equal. The US Supreme Court decreed that segregation is inherently unequal in Brown vs. Kansas Board of Education.

There is a lesson for Australia in this. The policy of public aid to sectarian schools helps create both a separation of Australians on religious lines and a two tier system of eduction where a higher proportion of children from sectarian schools than from public schools go on to tertiary education.

Government funding must address all the shortages in public schools, and funding to sectarian schools should be curtailed drastically or eliminated. The cost for those who wished to send their children to sectarian schools should be met by themselves or their faith community.
Posted by david f, Thursday, 22 May 2008 10:59:09 AM
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The article contained:

"In its Declaration of Independence, Israel promised “complete equality of social and political rights” to all its citizens. With regards to its Arab citizens, 20 per cent of the population, this is demonstrably not the case. Whether racist chanting at football matches or restrictions imposed on Arabs wishing to purchase property, they have ample reason to feel that they are the victims of discrimination."

Governments should treat all citizens equally under the law. Restrictions imposed on Arabs wishing to purchase property can be removed by law. Racist chanting at football matches is deplorable but not a matter for legislation except to encourage education to eliminate prejudice.

“Complete equality of social and political rights” can be established by law. Prejudice is another matter and can be addressed by education. Integrated schooling and elimination or curtailing of taxpayer funding for sectarian schools would improve matters in Australia and Israel
Posted by david f, Thursday, 22 May 2008 11:10:10 AM
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Lets clarify something immediately.

The article said:

"Then came the 1967 war and its aftermath"

REALITY. "Then came the SIMULTANEOUS MULTI NATIONAL ARAB/MUSLIM INVASION..which Israel managed to repell by the skin of it's teeth, and beCAUSE of that invasion being launched from specific territory, said territory was ANNEXED... or at least occupied, and with good reason.

The ONLY people to ask about 'Is it ok to occupy territory in this way' are those who'se head would be sliced and diced if they had lost that battle.

Personally, I don't care ONE HOOT for the debacle which is called the "U".N.... where the only unity is by nation states and devient lobby groups seeking more advantage for 'their mob'.

Don't bother trying to justify criticism of Israel based on any rubbish that the UN trots out.. remember:

"When the UN speaks..who is 'really' talking"

HUMAN RIGHTS.. the most basic human right is safety and survival, neither of which Israel can enjoy if they don't take serious precautions.
Given that Palestinians have repeatedly claimed their wombs are their best weapon... anything restricting their progress is a rightful act of self defense. Sad...but true.

WE..from the comfort of our luxurious lounge rooms in our HOUSES on our STOLEN LAND.. are actually arrogant and self deceived enough to think we have something to say to Israel? notttt a chance.

When the activists show me that they can give their Aussie dream to an indigenous family for free, then 'survive' without government aid.. I might..just might feel they are walking the walk.

Until then, all the woffle about 'human rights' is in the 'moronic rambling' category.

BUT WAIT.. if they ALL (Israelis and Arabs) embraced the one faith which will make them new people with a common heart... aah.. problem solved.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Thursday, 22 May 2008 12:29:07 PM
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David, screaming at us will not make it the truth. Israel launched a pre-emptive strike against all of her neighbours on 5 June 1967 and had disabled all of their air forces within 6 hours.

This news is so damn old now that it has grown whiskers.

Some of the lovely chaps you are so happy to continually defend had a good old fashioned book burning in Israel the other day. They rounded up the bibles of the evanglic nutjobs from all over the world and burnt them. Yep, those lovely chaps burnt the bibles.

Last week they sent the secret police out to bash a group of arab Israelis including two members of the Knesset, they tear gassed them and arrested them for the crime of attending their old village in Palestine.

Lovely chaps these Israelis. And the Australian media kowtows and bows down to them on a daily basis as Media Watch exposed on Monday night when the Herald bowed down to the Israeli lobby to spike the story of the murder of a Paletinian journalist that the whole world had already seen.

The world needs to stop pandering to the non-state of Israel. She is a rogue, one of the most violent places on earth and she has legalised torture, house demolitions, jailing of people without charge and even murder of those Shin Bet don't like.

So David, on the back of the bible burning by Orthodox jews you might want to ponder your slavish devotion to the barbarians.
Posted by Marilyn Shepherd, Thursday, 22 May 2008 6:22:48 PM
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BOAZ_David wrote:

"BUT WAIT.. if they ALL (Israelis and Arabs) embraced the one faith which will make them new people with a common heart... aah.. problem solved."

An absolutely horrible idea! The bad far outweighs the good in Christianity.

Christianity’s lamentable Middle East record includes Crusades, European imperialism and the invasion of Iraq where US troops were accompanied by 50 fundamentalist Christian groups according to Time Magazine.

Reverend Hagee endorsed McCain. Hagee’s Christians United for Israel (CUFI) supports the Israeli settler movement and finances relocation of Jews to settlements because God promised them Israel. CUFI called for the U.S. to attack Iran because Hagee sees war with Iran as a prelude to Armageddon.” Many Jews reject CUFI’s support as they realise it means continuation of a bloody conflict. McCain has finally rejected Hagee after becoming aware that Hagee referred to Hitler as a tool of God.

Neither Judaism nor Islam has a humanoid God embodying many attributes of the pagan deities, Osiris, Apollo and Attis, has an intermediary between God and humans, has split God into three parts or has separated individual salvation from a social gospel. Buddhism encourages questioning and reflection. Buddha advised others to question even his words. BOAZ_David, I have a suggestion. Sensible Christians who feel in need of religion should become Buddhists, Jews (Jesus' religion) or Muslims.

The Dark Ages began with the adoption of Christianity as the official religion of the Roman Empire. The Darkness lifted when western Europeans looked back to the spirit of enquiry in the classical world and started to question Christian dogma.

With its virgin birth, original sin, internecine wars, Crusades, Inquisitions, imperialisms and the Holocaust carried out by Christians the evidence is that conversion to Christianity is a step backwards to a bloody past. Christianity in interfering with science teaching still tries to deny reason in favour of superstition.

Matthew 7:16 “Ye shall know them by their fruits." Christians taking those words seriously should leave Christianity.

Displacement of Christianity by Buddhism, Judaism and Islam would not solve all problems. However, it would be an improvement.
Posted by david f, Friday, 23 May 2008 11:07:48 AM
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Marilyn,

And ranting and half truths will likewise generate heat but no light. Are you actually suggesting that Israel caused the 6 day war? In 1967 Egypt, Jordan and Syria massed troops on Israel's borders, expelled peace-keepers and blockaded the straits of Hormuz. For the period of known history the blockading of a countries' ports has been considered an act of war and casus-belli.

Israel’s behaviour, when held up against the standards of western countries who have known only peace in their homelands for close to 60 years, may not be exemplary. But considering that Israel has been pretty much at war for its whole history I believe Israel does a very good job at dispensing justice to its citizens in an even handed manner. I do not believe we would cope quite so well.

You talk about secret police bashings as if there were no Palestinians elements which were prone to confrontation in these situations. I refer to the numerous vicious bashing carried out by Hamas Police units on Gazans who support the PA.

The left needs to stop pandering to the nut jobs and head hackers of the Palestinians extremist groups. Once these groups are finished Israelis and Palestinians might have a chance at living together in peace. Have a read of the Hamas charter, Marilyn, and then try and tell me that the "administration" in Gaza is a reasonable and potential partner in any peace with the Israelis.

Israel is a state, no matter how much you soft-lefties want it to not be so. In fact it is the only democratic state in that region. I know you lefty's don’t have much time for democracy, but it is important to most NORMAL people. You refer to the Arab members of the Knesset. How many Jewish members are there of the Palestinian-Authority or Hamas?

Its just typical that the soft-left would support the religious-extremists and racists that make up Hamas and the Palestian authority. The soft left are the “peace-at-any-cost-brigade” and would gladly give away the freedom of others without-a-second-thought. But-they're-armchair-agitators-who-would be-screaming-for-blood-were-it-their-own-children cowering-under-metal-desks-due-to-the-daily-bombardment-by-extremists in-the-Gaza-strip. BTW-that’s-the-Gaza-strip-which-Israel-unilaterally-pulled-out-of, and-which-Hamas-has-used-as-a-forward-operating base-to-attack-Israel ever-since.
Posted by Paul.L, Friday, 23 May 2008 2:08:55 PM
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