Are you people insane? It doesn't matter how many smart people live in Israel, the non-state is still a savage place where Orthodox jews burn bibles.

Where they all have to do national service and are trained to murder their neighbours.

Even the Israelis' would laugh at the tripe you lot peddle.

In 1948 England and France backed the Arabs, and the US and the USSR backed Israel. Sympathisers of the fading colonial powers backed the Arabs. The left and pro-Americans backed Israel.

IN 1956 Israel, England and France attacked Egypt which had taken over the Suez canal. The US and the USSR pressured the three countries to pull back. Again the sympathies of the world reflected feelings toward the nations that were involved.

In 1967 Israel struck against the Arab armies which apparently were massed for attack. The USSR supported the Arabs, and the US supported the Israelis. At this point the sympathies were determined by the side people took in the Cold War. I was told that in Soviet-controlled Poland people enjoyed the Israeli victory. "Our Jews beat their Arabs!"

Israel's scientific and literary accomplishments are not relative to humanitarian concerns. The occupation is often brutal. However, Israelis protest against the policies of their government, and soldiers have refused to serve in the territories. Israel has used torture. However, Israel has an independent judiciary that declared torture illegal. The Arab minority is treated far better in Israel than the Jewish minority is treated in Iran and Syria. Non-Jews such as the Bedouins and Druze serve in the Israeli army. Chinese actions in Tibet, Mugabe's in Zimbabwe and others are far worse than that of the Israeli forces in the occupied territories. Yet there is a special venom against Israel. Some of it may be due to antisemitism. However, since many of the same groups that backed Israel in 1948 condemn it in 2008 that may not be a reason for all the condemnation. Perhaps they were inhibited in expressing their antisemitism so soon after the Holocaust.

News often is what is shown on TV. Israel as a democratic country allows media access to a much greater extent than China, Syria and many other countries. However, the suicide bombers are also reported. Yet, Palestinian suicide bombers seem accepted by many. Perhaps since the US supports Israel those who hate the US also hate Israel.

I don't understand Marilyn Shepherd's feelings.

David,people like you are half the problem.You were almost choking on your own vitriolic diatripe.
You need to be reminded that the state of Israel was founded on a travesty of international justice by the UN.Long before 1947-8 influential Zionists met with Lard Balfour of the British Conservative government and asked for help to create the state of Israel. After repeated requests Balfour reluctantly acquiesced ON THE BASIS THAT AT EVERY STEP OF THE PLANNING arab leaders must be consulted AND THEIR APPROVAL GAINED- ASSURANCES WERE PROMISED and given and Britian's collaboration was promised when the matter came up before the UN.The Arab leaders vigorously opposed such a plan but the religious affinities and cultural connections won the day for the Zionists.You'll note that I am not using the word "Jews".

Now, David, this is historical fact. No emotional racist vitriol here at all.Conceded?If not open your history book why dont you.

After WWII American was driven by the Zionists to proceed with the creation of the state of Israel.Jewish rabbis advised against such a move on the grounds that Israel was a spiritual state that could only be acquired through spiritual struggle and not by political means. It was apolitical. The Americans failed to get the numbers at the General Assembly by three votes. So they went to three basket cases...Haiti,Sierra Leone and the Philippines and used its wealth to buy their support...and so the state of Israel was created. It driven by the collective guilt of Christian Europe and the USA.It was driven by Zionist influence principally in new York and American dollars and its bullying tactics that have always dictated American foreign policies as the world can well see for itself...except the benighted unfortunates like yourself.

Take a look at the shape and size of the state of Israel that was conceded by the UNO, David. Go on.Open your history book. Look at the size and shape of Israel today. Any resemblance? Go on.Look at it.

socratease

Take a look at a map of Israel and Jordan, and wonder why the Arabs got 75% or thereabouts of the Palestinian Mandate. Palestinians already have a homeland. It's called Jordan (or East Palestine).

Antiseptic,

I’ll say this slowly so even you can understand (maybe).

Marilyn (crazy woman and anti-semite that she is) said >> “ The world needs to stop pandering to the non-state of Israel”

And then I said, in a post to Marilyn “Israel is a state, no matter how much you soft-lefties want it to not be so.” Marilyn-Shepherd- Thursday- 22-May-2008

No straw man.!!
Someone here did suggest such a thing!!

Do some research before you go making sweeping statements if you wish to avoid looking stupid.

As for your inept attempts to suggest that I am trying to “have it both ways, as usual,” as if you even have a clue what is, or is not, usual for me.

Secondly, when Iraq surrendered they gave up their sovereignty over a number of areas. You seem not to understand that, although it should be a very simple concept. You fight, you lose, you don’t still get to make all the decisions.

So, yes, if Iraq had been blockaded before hostilities then it would have been a case for war, because blockading is a direct and belligerent transgression on a nation’s sovereignty. However, after you have surrendered you give up all claims to further hostilities. That’s the essences of surrender. Of what use is surrender if the loser can renew hostilities at any time?

The fact is you haven’t given this any more than superficial attention, which is why you now look like a @rse.

FYI The soft-left are the chardonnay socialists who pay lip service to left issues when it doesn’t affect them too much. They are the epitome of PC culture. They pay little attention, as davidf points out, to disgusting human rights abuses in China and Zimbabwe. Yet they have venom aplenty for Israel, which is not even in the same league as the other two. This is because Israel is supported by the US, that perennial great Satan to the soft-left. So the soft-left are defined by their PC approach to issues, their hatred of America and their green fanaticism

Socratease,

Either-the-UN-is-a-legitimate-and-authoritative-organisation-or-it-is-not? Which-is-it?
BTW, You-missed-out-the-endorsement-of-the-League-of-Nations-for-a-state-for-Israel. Please-provide-references-for-your-“facts”

Marilyn Shepherd wrote:

"Some of the lovely chaps you are so happy to continually defend had a good old fashioned book burning in Israel the other day. They rounded up the bibles of the evanglic nutjobs from all over the world and burnt them. Yep, those lovely chaps burnt the bibles."

It hurt nobody and was not a government act. To round books up from all over the world one would have to pay for them so they didn't steal them.

Burning books is an unpleasant form of symbolic protest, but it is not illegal. The United States Supreme Court has even struck down laws that criminalised burning the American flag. They ruled it is a legitimate form of protest.

I share their feelings toward missionaries. You also referred to evangelists as nutjobs. Why does the burning bother you?

Marilyn Shepherd also wrote:

"Israel is not a state, she has no borders and no constitution and saying you can be a state on someone else's land without their permission was never allowed and nor should it be."

Israel is one of the many states in the UN.

All of Israel’s borders are fixed with the exception of those with the occupied territories and Syria. Israel is negotiating with Syria to fix a border. If there is a Palestinian state that will fix the remaining border. The US declared independence in 1776 and did not fix its boundary with Canada until 1846.

The UK has no Constitution. Many think it is a state. http://www.cfisrael.org//about.html is the website for the current Israeli efforts to draft a constitution.

Before 1948 all land that Jews got from Palestinians was paid for. Some Jewish Israelis are descendants of previous inhabitants. All states in North America, South America, Australia and New Zealand were founded without permission of the previous inhabitants. Romans, Norse, Danes, Angles, Saxons, Jutes and Normans overran the British Isles without permission. Are there places where people got permission from the inhabitants before they moved onto the land? Please cite examples.

What really bothers you about Israel?