Steel,

You say >> “I've REVEALED your technical errors in my posts here. The fact that you do not realise this is proof again, of your bias.”

That’s a fallacious argument although I’m sure you weren’t aware of that. Just for starters you haven’t pointed out that anything I said was an error, what you have done is make a counterpoint. That you cannot see this speaks volumes in itself.

You say >> “your accusations against the North for invading implied ignorance of the context”

1) China insists Tibet and Taiwan are part of China. Is it OK for China to invade Tibet?
2) Irrelevant that the communists were complaining about the lack of democracy. You obviously don’t understand irony at all.
3) I’m talking about the Communist regime after 1975. Reread my original. Who can’t read comments properly?
4) Can’t you even tell the difference between an opinion (indeed propaganda) and fact? You think you are revealing FACT, when in actuality you are revealing opinion or point of view. And someone else’s at that. So don’t be pretending that you are the bearer of truth, revealer of fact.

You say >> “All your examples there were during war time, not during peacetime, as the executions of communists by the western sympathetic Diem in the South were.”

Oh MY GOD.

You have really messed up there Steel, my good man. For a number of reasons I think you might like to take that back before I rub your nose it.

You say >> “After these violations and egregious crimes against the country by foreign powers”

Where do you think that North Vietnam got all of its artillery, tanks, machine guns etc? The communist Russians and Chinese were pumping billions of dollars in arms and funding into North Vietnam as early as 1949.

800,000 people moved out of the North when the country was split in 1954. 3 million left the country when the communists took over in 1975. I think it’s fair to say that the North Vietnamese were not the victims you are trying so desperately to make out.

PauL. When you claimed most were imprisoned or punished for My lai, armed with a citation i pointed out how wrong that was, in reality the opposite had happened.

1. I'm vague on this issue, but i believe China's claims don't hold up to history. And that they've broken the 20th century agreement they reached with the Dalai lama about protecting the culture and autonomy of the people (or something like that).
2. I understand irony, but that is the system. Cancelling elections and executing the political opposition doesn't make you better than them, it makes you the same, or worse (because you hold yourself to false precepts while they are open about their goals). And that is what the south did.
3. Now that you've clarified it i can see the indication, but i don't see the relevance to the cancelling of elections etc, which came first.
4. The cancellation of the reunification is a fact, according to the Geneva agreement in 1950s. The South cancelled it and that was a violation of the sovereignty of Vietnam as a single, unified country as it would have existed.

PaulL."You have really messed up there"

Just remember i'm talking about discrete event and claims. You gave examples of wartime actions. If you have others I'm not aware of that happened before the war and the cancellations, then provide them.

PaulL.>"The communist Russians and Chinese were pumping billions of dollars in arms and funding into North Vietnam as early as 1949."

You must know that in 1941 they were seeking and won independence for their country from the French and Japanese, and that the French in 1946 invaded to try and reinsert French rule, with the support of....yes, the USA. (surprise, surprise)
-=-=-=
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam#First_Indochina_War
"during the course of the war, the U.S.-backed French and Vietnamese loyalists eventually suffered a major strategic setback at the Siege of Dien Bien Phu"
-=-==-
Here's a parallel example anyway. In 1953, the democratic USA and UK, who overthrew the democratically elected Iranian president (now we see the seeds of terrorism).

o sung wu

Thank you for responding.....I totally understand why you haven't been able to tell your new wife the traumas you went through...I absolutely respect the fact she is with you and offering a life-line of support to you.

Maybe when the time is right you might like to tell her of all that you went through...I do believe she will support you with further understanding and commitment.

If you believe the weekly sessions at Repatriation are not working, there are many other services available to ex Vietnam Vets that might assist you.

One story that I can relate to you and members of this "thread" -

"We were told to dig trenches offshore, we didn't know where the enemy was at the time, we were just told to "dig in".

We were told this was an important point to "hold".....we did as we were told. We dug in. We held our point for 4 days with rations (which ran out) and no other support personnel.

Any "sound" echoed ......... we didn't know if this was the enemy or our guys ....our guns were at the ready at all times.....it was our lives or theirs.

I need any "human" being to consider 4 days in a "hold situation"....the trauma on the human mind, just put yourself in their situation for a time....and walk in their shoes.

O sung wu - you have a story to tell, as many others who served in Vietnam.... you are not alone.

Yes, you are right when you lie and try to sleep - the traumas come back they never go away.

This is the legacy of war (all wars) .....pure and simple.

Ex service personnel from World War 1, 2 and Vietnam Vets still don't tell their loved ones the true horrors they witnessed.

How anyone can "trivialise" their service - in any way - completely abhors me.

And likewise, how anyone can attribute the "trivialisation" to others -in any way- in cases where the soldiers do so through their own actions themselves completely abhors me.

"You must know that in 1941 they were seeking and won independence for their country from the French and Japanese, and that the French in 1946 invaded to try and reinsert French rule, with the support of....yes, the USA. (surprise, surprise)" - Steel

Because Truman didn't want to unset the French over colonisation. Roosevelt had he lived would probably taken a different stance.

China's relations with Tibet [Hsi Hsia] are very complex and go back to at least 1036 and involve the Mongols too. You should also recall when many favours were bestowed on Tibet it was during the Qing dynasty [Manchu]. The Manchu's dominated the Han from 1644-1911. Mao asserted Han dominance. I could explain the serious Tibetan situation in some detail but suspect you would find my post trivial or silly, as you do slavery.

O.

Good evening to you SAINTS...

Again, thank you for your kind sentiments and support. It's nice to know that some folk both realize and accept that we were SENT to SV by our own government. In the military one does what one's told - absolutely!

I have no doubt whatsoever, that just about ALL Aussie troops who served there, performed their duty in an honourable and decent way.

There was no doubt, the war was a disgusting and atrocious affair, both for civilians and military alike.

Personally, I thought it a bastard of a place. Every time you were tasked to 'go outside the wire' for a patrol or to 'man' a FSB, you s..t yourself until you ultimately returned to the relative safety of 'the Dat' such as it was !

And now thankfully, it's over for most. Except for those who still harbour disconcerting thoughts and disturbing images, that dwell deep within the recesses of their hearts and minds . For those...it'll NEVER be truly over.....ever !