PaulL., Calling me intellectually challenged is ironic considering you've been shown to make regular technical errors in many article discussions, and are extremely biased. It's also ironic because i've explained the miscommunication in enough detail that you should have shut up about it. I've been through this Vietnam discussion before with you a few months ago and you persist in complete ignorance (or some kind of subconcious, partisan denial) of what I revealed in that discussion.

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PaulL.> “You leftist simpletons prefer to ignore the fact that North Vietnam invaded the South.”

Steel>"You should learn about the conditions prior to the start of the war. The communists in the south would have been elected had not the election been rigged and the people defrauded. Secondly they suffered persecution and were executed by the government.

Steel>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ngo_Dinh_Diem#Rule
From Wikipedia>“...Tortures and killings of "communist suspects" were committed on a daily basis. The death toll was put at around 50,000...”

Steel>the country was divided by a foreign international comittee and that the separation was to be temporary. Apparently the same party (Dinh Diem's) in South Vietnam that was responsible for executing communists by the thousand and which held a fraudulent election, cancelled the reunification elections scheduled by the 1954 Geneva Accords.

From Wikipedia > "According to the Geneva Agreements the country was divided at the 17th parallel into Ho Chi Minh's North Vietnam and Ngo Dinh Diem's South Vietnam after the example of Korea. This was intended to be temporary, pending an election in 1956, which never took place."
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PaulL."If you want to be an internationalist and mourn everybody, that’s your right. But don’t try and tell the rest of us that we can’t honour our own."

DavidF. NEVER SAID YOU CAN'T. Unless there is some other quote of his you are referring to, or that you think the two are mutually exclusive (which would say more about your bias than anything you've said yet), you must be typically including anyone who disagrees with you to be in the same category.

Good evening All -

PASSY...

You've stated herein that the notion of Aussie Vietnam Vets. being abused and 'spat upon' by some members of the community, is a myth ?

It has not happened to me. However, it did happen to a mate of mine who was in my company whilst we were preparing to assemble for the ANZAC Day March in Sydney in the early eighties.

Further on the same day, post the march I was walking in the Sydney CBD with my first wife, on our way to the Bn. reunion. Two 'ladies' approached and felt the need to yell, and call me a 'child killer' (IN THE PRESENCE OF MY WIFE! !) in front of many members of the public ! At the time, I was a serving member of the police force.

I was so angry both with the spitting incident involving my mate, earlier in the day. And later, the abuse I received at the hands of these two 'ladies' - I was very nearly to the point of arresting both of these shameless protagonists ! I didn't naturally, (I was off duty) and I was there to commemorate the solemnity of ANZAC Day .

It certainly is NO MYTH PASSY .

DAVID F...

Everyone suffers in a war - nobody actually ever wins. The Vietnam War was a particularly filthy and disgusting episode in modern human history...ABSOLUTELY !

Passy

The spitting on our Vietnam Vets is certainly NOT a myth....have personally witnessed it and on several occasions.
During the Vietnam War years I was involved with our troops and the USA troops when they were on leave in Sydney.
A song written by the Animals "We've got to get out of this place" was sung on every occasion that the Aussies and the Yanks got together at gatherings.....all the Aussies wanted was to "come home" and stay home.....all the yanks wanted was to "go home".
I feel sure o sung wu would know the song also.
Every time I hear this song, I always remember our boys and the yanks joining arms in circles singing at the top of their voices and with tears in their eyes.....they just wanted to go home.
During these years I heard many stories of the destruction of human life, they didn't want to be there any more than our boys.
Since those years I still remain in contact with so many of these boys (now men) who try to live day by day.....the trauma of what they witnessed and experienced won't go away and hasn't for many of them.
Anzac Day should never be replaced, as it is a day of remembrance and a show of respect for all our serving personnel.

Steel

I’m sorry, I make regular technical errors?

You can’t even acknowledge the things you posted three days back. So just excuse me if I don’t take you too seriously.

You say >>” you persist in complete ignorance … of what I REVEALED”

I didn’t realize that you were the source of undeniable historical fact. Don’t tell me, you are a widely known and respected historian whose possession of the facts confounds even those who were there? Right? Steel the Revealer of truth. I love it.

You say >> “The communists in the south would have been elected had not the election been rigged and the people defrauded. Secondly they suffered persecution and were executed by the government.”

1) That’s exactly the same excuse the Russians used to invade Afghanistan.
2) When have you ever known communists to care at all about elections? Certainly they are almost NEVER voted out.
3) Those same South Vietnamese Communists never actually got into positions of power in the new communist regime. They were almost entirely ignored by the Northerners.
4) If persecution is your gold standard for intervention then Iraq should have had your full support

You say >>“...Tortures and killings of "communist suspects" were committed on a daily basis. The death toll was put at around 50,000...”

During one month the NVA executed as many as 6000 civilians in Hue city.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_at_Hu%E1%BA%BF
The Dak son massacre where a village of 2000 Montagnard tribesman was attacked by a NVA/VC force armed with 60 flamethrowers. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,837586-2,00.html
The NVA/VC maintained their control over the population through violence and brutality.

You say >> “Apparently the same party … cancelled the reunification elections scheduled by the ... Geneva Accords.

The Paris peace accords, which North Vietnam agreed to, demanded that a political solution to the conflict be found. The NVA’s political solution was to drive a tank into the presidential palace.
http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/vietnamwar/a/VietnamEnd.htm

Finally 3,000,000 people escaped Vietnam after the communist won in any rickety boat they could find. How you can suggest, with any semblance of conviction, that the communists were the peoples choice is beyond me

Hi there - SAINTS & PAUL L.

SAINTS, thank you for your moral support and the encouragement to essentially 'tell my story' . I have very little to tell actually. The war left such an indelible memory on my psyche most of it remains deeply within. Even my dear second wife knows very little of the events that occurred over forty years ago now.

Depression is always just under the surface. I attend the Repatriation Hospital weekly for treatment. Interestingly, there is no treatment that works.

These folk that like to make certain assertions and aver misbehaviour by us (the vets) really don't have a clue. They really don't SAINTS ! It's fine to cite incidences ad infinitum however, unless you were there - well, what else can I say................??

Hi there PAUL L.

I really wouldn't waste my time arguing with STEEL. He possesses an intractable point of view on matters associated with the Vietnam War. And like many others who glean their information from the written word, you'd never be able to shift him from his position of intransigence.

SAINTS & PAUL L.

It's when you put your head down at night...that's when you really do regress back to those 40 odd years ago ?

PaulL, I've revealed your technical errors in my posts here. The fact that you do not realise this is proof again, of your bias.

And yes I revealed that information, with the help of wikipedia. You certainly were ignorant of the details, because your accusations against the North for invading implied ignorance of the context (or a deliberate ommission if you were already aware of it).

1) Was Afghanistan a part of the USSR?
2) Irrelevant
3) That's because of the rigged elections and irrelevant.
4) Vietnam's sovereignty was directly violated after the reunification was cancelled by the South. If you had actually read that, you would have known this by now (even after two opportunities, it still hasn't sunk in though? which indicates your bias or inability to read my comments properly).

All your examples there were during war time, not during peacetime, as the executions of communists by the western sympathetic Diem in the South were.

PaulL.>"The Paris peace accords, which North Vietnam agreed to, demanded that a political solution to the conflict be found. The NVA’s political solution was to drive a tank into the presidential palace."

Those were made in 1970s. I'm talking about 1956 or so. The Geneva reunification was cancelled by the Diem south then.

After these violations and egregious crimes against the country by foreign powers, all bets are off as far as i'm concerned. The prior incident by the western supported south, including the crimes against political opposition, basically indicated treaties were worthless and could be broken. Like the American native indians in America, who were made to sign treaties over land that were never held to by colonialists. Should they be expected to honour new treaties constantly broken? No. They merely completed the reunification as 1956 Geneva required.