CJ Morgan,

Your ability to comprehend and logically reason are in serious doubt because you completely missed the point of my question.

Read carefully !!
Whether Taliban had evolved from self-replicating molecules in Afghanistani soil; or whether British, Soviet or Americans planted them inside Afghanistan, had nothing to do with my question !!

Let me re-phrase my question more simply :-

"Tell us why, despite an absence of SOCIAL ALIENATION in Afghanistan under the Taliban, nonethelss we found the worst extremists, fundamentalists right there ??"

( I am sure Bertrand has a stronger ability to logical reason and therefore chose not to refer to David Wright-Neville quote in the first place).

(Sometimes you can tell a fool when the fool keeps telling others what others already know.)

Now we shall see if you are able to respond to a simpler version of my question !!

CJ.. the Mallah case is quite interesting.

1/ Mallah wants a passport.

2/ Passport refused, Asio gives a negative assesmment. (reasons are not given, but they must have been substantial because there were 25,000 Lebanese Muslims with Australian passports in Sth Lebanon during the recent war who COULD get them)

3/ He becomes 'anti' toward the Australian government.

So far.. pretty normal, and perfectly legal.

THEN......he crossed the LINE.

a) He bought a GUN and ammo.
b) He made a video of a suicide message!

ALL THIS BEFORE...... anything had happened to him apart from the rejected passport application.
It was also BEFORE the undercover officer had approached him.
(if the chronology of your linked article is correct)

THEN... it appears he got caught up in his own image, and experienced national publicity via the Australian article.
THEN... the AFP decided to 'plumb the depths' of this tortured soul and see how far he would go.

THEN.. Mallah explained he planned to kill a DFAT or ASIO officer.. and did a video explaining his actions.

Now.. I saw his apologetic on the ABC and his suggested that he was just 'playing along, got caught up' etc.. and that "no..I never had any plan to kill anyone"

Unfortunately, the evidence suggests otherwise.

-He HAD bought the gun.
-he HAD bought ammunition.
-he HAD done a video.

all "before" the AFP undercover operative encounter.

Now.. you can take this assessment with complete confidence, because it comes from "behind enemy lines", -always a persuasive approach.
So it is not based on some 'loony right wing nutter Islamophobic rant' but a 'sympathetic leftist explanation' :)

In an attempt to avoid the sniping that percolates our discussions just want to point out what many academic historians believe what our troubled world needs now, especially in the Middle East.

The term - Sharing the Blame - probably more relates to family problems, but reckon if something similar is not achieved in the Middle East, we could be headed for outright war, especially if full blame is sheeted on Iran.

Like most academic areas, especially in universities, talks about Blame Sharing is becoming more common, as it also being discussed with religious clerics, not so much, unfortunately with right-wing fundamentalists.

There is also a section of Israelies who believe that Jews, Christians and Muslims should all get together and try to save the future world from a catastrophe which will surely outdo global warming.

For Godsake let's all get together on it.

CJ and that ilk- if you seriously think tossing around terms like racist and islamophobia somehow explains what happened in Cronulla 2 years ago then you do not have a clue.

Terms like those might accurately describe some of the behaviour and some of those who took part in the Sunday protest, but are only one element in the genesis of the situation.

Teenagers habitually form cliques based on interests like music, style and yes, even ethnicity. That testosterone fuelled teenage boys identify themselves as Leb or Maco or Wog as part of their development shouldn't surprise anyone, and nor should the ensuing territorial fights with other groups, who thru their privilege think that their suburb is just that, 'theirs'. As a good friend who runs a primary school in the Bankstown region says, High School teachers ask her "what happens in those 6 weeks over christmas to turn that classroom full of responsible angels into this room full of beasts?"; knowing all along that puberty is the answer.

Maybe too this was the 9/11 generation- those who were exposed to the horror of the twin towers without the analytical ability to understand. Add to this incidents such as the Skaff brothers race related rapes, and impressionable minds get it wrong. On both sides.

Bob Carr, when premier had no hesitation in fingering criminal Lebanese gangs in SW Sydney, and nobody called him a racist. It remains a mystery why he disbanded the special police task force dedicated to this very group. What is not a mystery is that Morris Iemma owes his political survival to his successful branch stacking of Lebanese Moslems from the Lakemba region. Thats on the public record.

TBC

What is not understood by people is the extreme levels of tension that existed before the riots. Everybody heard about the attack on the lifeguard one week prior, but I've yet to hear of any expert who has taken the time to look deeper. I swam at North Cronulla almost daily that year and witnessed (twice) groups of Lebanese youths accost skip girls in intimidating ways, threaten single white youths and intimidate beachgoers with their over-the-top behaviour.

My little vox pop of 12 14-23yo Shire kids in the week before the protest found 5 of them had been subject to physical or verbal abuse, 6 more had seen such instances; and only one who had not. This included my daughter who hadn't told me she had been molested.

The reality was that there were perhaps 200 youths who were running wild and no attempts at law enforcement. The govt. had effectively closed the local police station, Morris was in debt to their community and in no mood to police them.

That teenagers from both sides took the law into their own hands says more about all our failings than any deep seated fears or phobias.

Convenient labels are for the lazy, and fit the prejudices of those who use them

With respect to the Four Corners program, the issue isn't whether or not the Cronulla riots were an outpouring of racism or simply an extreme example of Sydney beach tribal conflict. The point was that it was expressed in racist terms on talkback radio and in the SMS messages that rallied the "Aussie" thugs:

"This Sunday every F*#@^%g Aussie in the shire, get down to North Cronulla to help support Leb and wog bashing day...

Bring your mates down and let’s show them this is our beach and they’re never welcome back"

The riot itself featured crowds chanting "F*#@ the Lebs! Let's keep our country clean! F*#@ the Lebs off! F*#@ off kebabs!" and worse, and people being attacked simply because they had 'dark' skin, including a Greek girl and a couple of Bangladeshi students.
[http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/2006/s1590953.htm ]

In last week's program, several young Muslim men described how such racist slogans and mob violence made them feel further marginalised in their own country.

Similarly, Boazy's email mate Mallah had been subjected to racial abuse and had his home broken into, after receiving publicity over his passport application. This was prior to him purchasing the gun - funny that Boazy missed that bit in the article I linked to above. If Zaccy Mallah wasn't an alienated Australian born young Muslim, I don't know who is.

The Four Corners program attempted to explore how Australian intolerance, Islamophobia and racism might be implicated in the production of 'home-grown' terrorists. While it's not the whole story by any means, I think that its overall point was valid.

gz, I haven't answered your off-topic question for several reasons, including that it's difficult to know what you're actually asking. Is English your second language, perchance? However, the main reason is that you've shown yourself on various other threads to be an ill-mannered Islamophobic troll, and I don't want to play with you :)

Besides which, on your own account you didn't see the program and you obviously havn't read the transcript, so you're just talking out of your arse again, anyway.