CJ,

What concerns me most of all is the number of soft-lefters who point to Europe and Britain as examples of how multiculturalism should work. I have not bothered to check whether you are a proponent, although I have a feeling you are. I will of course apologize if you are not.

I’ve just finished reading the Islamist by Ed (Mohammed) Hussein. His descriptions bring into sharper focus the failure of the multi culti brigade in Britain, where they are more fanatical than in Australia. There can be little doubt that in Britain Islamist (as opposed to muslim) values are being forcefully pushed into the mainstream.

I accept that maligning all Muslims in BD’s manner is doing the Islamists work for them. I also believe that the soft-left’s behaviour has been extremely helpful to those Islamist organizations, allowing them to flourish. To argue however, that the Islamist organizations are somehow our fault is patently false and self-defeating.

Tolerance of organizations like Jamaat-e-Islami and Hizb ut-Tahrir and their front organizations posing as lobby groups, allowed the subversion of large traditional Muslim communities, through a mixture of lies, bullying and soft left support. When I say soft-left support, I don’t necessarily mean that the soft left accepted the ideas of radical Islamo-Fascists but they were always ready to support the cry of racism and religious intolerance which was obscenely ironic, given the hatred of the west and non muslims that is a hallmark of these groups.

It is rather a little late after events like 9/11 and 7/7 to say “ … we have laws against people harming each other.” And if you were even thinking of blaming the west for these acts you should note that these organizations were spewing their hate filled messages in Britain since the start of the Bosnian War in the early 90’s, before there was a War on Terror.

To this day Jamaat-e-Islami and Hizb ut-Tahrir are not banned groups in the UK, yet its members advocate violence against non muslims and support the introduction of sharia law in Britain. Seemingly Britains anti-vilification laws don’t work.

....take one youth, indoctrinated to believe that a woman should be covered when in public, and that she should be chaperoned when out. Add a dash of Hilalli style sexist bigotry....and a belief that females who display flesh are somehow cheap, and drop him on Cronulla Beach.....amongst kids who are brought up to believe (to some degree) in the equality of the sexes, in beach fashion and an openness in communication and sexuality that often shocks their grandparents, let alone my 'boy'.

There is a clash of cultural values going on here, and it is my and our kids who are dealing with this regularly. Name calling; Boaz, Morgan et al helps no-one. This conflict will take time to work out.

But it is a real conflict, at an individual level, not something that slogans and virtuous sentiment will solve. Sally N. and her ilk do Moslem Australian a disservice when they allow the excusing away of disgraceful behaviour under victim labels. Sally herself wouldn't last one hour in Bankstown as an anonymous citizen without extreme discomfort.

Beware the Nick Cohn syndrome, where we end up excusing the worst of one behaviour whilst we (rightly) bang away at the worst of another.

Equality of intolerance. Just say NO.

Paul.L: "What concerns me most of all is the number of soft-lefters who point to Europe and Britain as examples of how multiculturalism should work. I have not bothered to check whether you are a proponent, although I have a feeling you are. I will of course apologize if you are not."

If Paul had bothered to look outside his blinkered view of those who disagree with him, he might know (among other things) that I've never referred to Europe - including Britain - as any kind of successful example of multiculuralism. I've always regarded the European experience of grudging acceptance of their former colonial minions as a form of karma, actually. Sort of like Kipling's 'white man's burden' come home to roost. No wonder there's so much hatred on all sides there.

The Australian experience of multiculturalism is fundamentally different. I'll await Paul's apology.

palimpsest: "There is a clash of cultural values going on here, and it is my and our kids who are dealing with this regularly. Name calling; Boaz, Morgan et al helps no-one. This conflict will take time to work out."

Yeah well, one of my kids just graduated from what is probably Brisbane's most cosmopolitan high school, and he managed to navigate his way through his adolescent cultural clashes remarkably successfully, with minimal assistance required from his parents. My 11-year old daughter doesn't sem to display any major symptoms of cultural dissonance, and they even have Islam as one of the available religions for R.E. at her State primary school. Mind you, for some reason she has already decided that all of the R.E. classes are a crock - of entirely her own volition. I think she already knows some truths that some people here seem unable to comprehend.

I suspect that the 'cultural clash' is more evident in the benighted suburbs of Sydney - which is of course one reason I wouldn't to live there :)

"Equality of intolerance. Just say NO." I like it :) I suspect that old pal and I are closer on this issue than we like to admit.

Interesting comment in Google appears to point out that if America will not share the blame for Middle East problems it should rightly bear the blame for neo-colonialist intrusions which have annoyed the Arab peoples, but probably not so much the Saudi Shaiks.

CJ,

I apologise for lumping you in with those morons who think that Australia should strive for a more European style multiculturalism. It's hard to keep track of all the idiots on OLO who blame the west for the worlds ills. I'm glad you aren't one of them.

I am interested in your idea that Australia's multiculturalism is much different to Britains. Is that because Australia is not a multi-racial society?

best regards

Paull, as it seems you lump so many university trained thinkers among your morons, you might find in the end that you are among the biggest of the morons yourself - especially as regards a recipe to bring peace to the Middle East.

You can bet your life, Paull, that invading Iran with the help of Israel, won't fix it, unless you believe in genocide for the bulk of the ME Islamics.

Such might be the femme fatale for Americana and little Israel as well.

Cheers - BB.