CJ,
What is even more interesting is that the program actually neglected to examine the massive retaliatory attacks by car loads of muslim yobs. There was a lot more damage to person and property done on that day. Nor did sally neighbour do any research as to why a group of Australians, ( who are among the most politically inactive people on earth ) decided they needed a rally of the type we saw at Cronulla. To suggest that the “ xenophobic hatred of the ugliest kind” is only confined to white Australians is to live in fairy land. The insane game of turning aggressors into victims and vice versa is unfortunately a staple of the left. It’s an integral part of the “white guilt” that the soft-left have internalised over the past 30 years. Muslim rapist says” I’m depraved on account of I was deprived, your honour. Its really your fault”

What we are arguing is that the increasing anti-muslim sentiment in Australia can be better understood as a reaction to the behaviour/intolerance of certain muslim groups. You mention Islamophobia as if it was a disease that could be cured if we were all just a little more tolerant. But tolerance of others faiths and cultures is not a noted strong point in Islam. I don’t see many muslims holding out olive branches. All I hear is, “start doing what we want or there will be violence.” How many times throughout the program did a muslim interviewee mention the possibility of violence.

By stoking the muslims sense of victimhood, that they have learned so well from the grievance mongers of the left, we are creating a situation in which tolerance becomes less likely. You are completely missing the fact that today’s muslims are less integrated than they were 20 years ago. The malign influence of foreign imams payed for by Saudi or Iranian radicals has had the expected effect of radicalising the muslim communities. The radical islamists see us as effete, weak and lacking in will. We have given them every reason to believe this so far

Turn left then right,

You say >” I do however, give the prize for most one-eyed post, to bigmal, for completely neglecting to mention that some muslims appear to have died at the hands of non-muslims as well.”

You seem to have implicitly accepted that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are attacks on Islam and that therefore the retaliation against any infidels they can lay their hands on is OK. That is precisely what the radical Islamists would have you believe, and it is what they are telling their communities to provoke a confrontation between Islam and the West. That kind of division allows the radcal islamo-fascists to gain better control over the own people, whatever the negative effects are likely to be for the average muslim.

Perfect example young muslim bloke makes a video vowing to kill as many infidels as he can. Then he’s upset he can’t go within 20KM of the Sydney CBD during the recent heads of gov’t meeting. Of course it us who are responsible for these head-hackers. We couldn’t possibly hold them accountable for their own actions.

In the mid 19th century India was suffering a spate of violence over the banning of the practice of suttee, wife burning. The locals claimed the brits were interfering with their local customs. The governor told them they could go ahead with their cultural practices but that we had one of our own which consisted of hanging from a noose the head of any one who burned women. That’s the message we need to send now. Where so called muslim cultural practices conflict with our cultural practices, muslim practices are going to have to give way. Surveys of the world’s least free countries are always over represented by muslim nations. For me that seems to be a very good motivator for us to resist the reverse assimilation being attempted by muslim migrants.

ZAKKY MALAH whining about how he was victimized.....

I've had personal email contact with Mallah, and the content of those emails from him, shows an extremely hateful, beligerent attitude.

He did a video on Youtube (since removed) in which he glorifies the worst criminals in the Goulbourn Supermax such as Bassam Hamzy as hero's of Islam..and calls them all brothers .

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,22906309-5001021,00.html

Mallah is specially intolerant of Christianity and Christians.

Boaz

'Mallah is specially intolerant of Christianity and Christians.'

It is a horrible thing to say but that is why the left seem so comfortable with 'the religion of peace' The earth worshippers also claim to be peaceful but their actions certainly don't show it.

Arjay: "the comments by man 2,3,4 are to be expected after the torrent of abuse many have endured by many from the Muslim community"

Nonsense - it is to be expected from good old Aussie racists egged on by radio shock jocks and the tabloid media.

TRTL: "I think Bertrand's central contention - that Ms Neighbour didn't do enough to emphasise the other side of the argument, holds up reasonably"

Fair comment. Four Corners should do a program that analyses the roots of Islamophobia in Australia.

gz: "Why did you quoted (sic) DAVID WRIGHT-NEVILLE ??"

Because he featured in the program and provided an analysis of the causes of terrorism that was completely ignored by Bertrand.

"Tell us why, despite an absence of social alienation in Afghanistan under the Taliban, nonethelss we found the worst extremists, fundamentalists right there ??"

Do you know anything at all of the colonial history of Afghanistan, particularly under British, then Soviet domination, followed by the transformation of the mujahadeen into the Taliban after the Americans abandoned them?

Paul.L: " You are completely missing the fact that today’s muslims are less integrated than they were 20 years ago."

You seem to be completely missing the fact that the "West" (including Australia") declared war on "terror" in the wake of 9/11, but has confined its hostilities to predominantly Muslim nations. Also, see my comment about the conflation of some forms of Islamophobia with racism in the General thread on that subject [http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=1593 ].

Boazy, Zakky Mallah is precisely the kind of alienated young Muslim whose attraction to extremism was fed by his experience of belligerence by Islamophobes. Yes, he was an idiot, but he was a peaceful and law-abiding one until further alienated by bureaucratic bullying and tabloid journalism. See http://www.bobbrown.org.au/files/campaigns/extras/australia's%20terror%20laws_the%20second%20wave.pdf .

"Aside from a couple of throwaway phrases, the entire article pretty much dismisses the idea that muslims in Australia are being ostracised, regardless of whether some bad apples have provoked this negative perception."

On the contrary. The article acknowledge that there is anti-Muslim sentiment, it merely questions the causes of this sentiment in the community and questions the 4 Corners account.

This is also where CJ's account falls as well. The hostility can only be described as anti-Muslim sentiment because it is not felt towards other groups.

I believe the article does rattle Sally Neighbour's account. Tim Blair makes the fair point that the English terrorists were not marginalized, and this calls into question how much marginalization plays a role in the creating of terrorists.

Indeed, as the article shows, bad behaviours committed by some Muslims occurred well before the media spotlight was thrown on them. It's pretty obvious that it is these unacceptable behaviours which have caused the spotlight to be thrown at them, rather than the other way around.

I can see that some are resisting the not-so-PC view on this, but most comm enters seem to be pretty sensible in rejecting political correctness and examining the issue