Rache,

So you can admit that you were being rather disingenuous when you quoted incident statistics, which might include total non events, instead of casualties, which is surely a far better method of discerning a groups’ importance. The activity of a group when measured by incident is of far less relevance than the number of casualties caused. To suggest that somehow FARC are more dangerous to the average person than Alqaeda requires breathtaking stupidity. To include statistics from 1968 is also a little disingenuous because many of the old nationalist and communist terror groups of the 60’s ,70’s and 80’s are now gone.

Hamas’ stated aim is to create an Islamic state across all of Palestine including Israel. The very suggestion that they are somehow separate to the growing pan-Islamic movement is ridiculous.

If the intervention in Saudi was such an important milestone how come we don’t see any real increases in terrorism until 1990? Which is when the Kingdom pleaded for American intervention to save their oil fields from the rapacious Saddam Hussein.

I would like to see your link for Reagan supporting the Taliban. Certainly Regan supported the Mujahadeen in their fight against the Soviet invasion of their country. The Americans supplied billions of dollars to help the Afghans take back their country. Beyond that the reconstruction was their responsibility. Tribalism in Afghanistan isn’t a creation of the west it’s been around forever and the Afghan’s themselves are responsible for its perpetuation. And if you remember it was Ahmad Shah Masouds’ army we fought beside to overthrow the Taliban.

The medias coverage has focused on Islamic terrorism because
1. they are doing all the damage
2. they are doing it internationally.
FARC is Columbia’s problem and the Tamil Tigers are Sri Lankas, but Islamic terror can occur anywhere.

When is 'discrimination'.... "inclusion"?

and what does this have to do with the alienation of Muslims?

If you discriminate against non Muslims by DENYING them access to a university gym on religious grounds. (that they are not Muslims).. according to the Muslim spokes person from CAIR..this is in fact 'Inclusion' and 'accomodation'.....
err..NO...IT'S DISCRIMINATION! against non Muslims.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upGCMl_b0n4

Why worry about Jidahist or Islamists..when the real war is going on in our public institutions, taxis, schools etc.

The objectives of the Jihadists, i.e. the 'Islamification of Western society' is being if not achieved, at least energetically attempted by Muslims.

-Muslim TAXI drivers denying passage to Blind and Booze carrying on "religious freedom" grounds. (Minnesota/Minneapolis and some in Melbourne)
-Muslim Students demanding
a)changes to University lecture times to permit 'religous obligation' daily prayer times, specially Friday.
b)Separate dining/recreation areas for Muslim women.

So.. as for me, I have no illusions whatsoever as to 'why' Muslims feel alienated, it is because signficant members of their community, are trying to re-shape ours in terms of theirs. Its really not complicated.

ILLUSTRATION. Today I had a moment of illumination :) yep.. I was driving down a rather narrow dirt road, but still there was enough room for 2 cars to pass. The 4wd coming the other way from me, occupied 70% of the road, because he had a large space on his passenger side to the edge of the road. But when he saw me driving toward him... he gave me the 'no way mate' look... because I couldn't fit through. So..I got out of the car.. went up to his car and king hit him many times.. aaaaah :) no.. that was fiction, I just slowed down, and waited for him to REALIZE! that he was taking up so much of the road and move to the side. Cultures, see others, like he saw me.

Boazy: "Muslim TAXI drivers denying passage to Blind and Booze carrying on "religious freedom" grounds. (Minnesota/Minneapolis and some in Melbourne)
-Muslim Students demanding
a)changes to University lecture times to permit 'religous obligation' daily prayer times, specially Friday.
b)Separate dining/recreation areas for Muslim women."

Oh come on, Boazy - every one of those examples has been refuted several times in this forum. You are exaggerating each one of them as if they hadn't been, so you are effectively reverting to your habit of telling porkies. Is lying pathological with you?

Being concerned about radical Islamists is one thing, but once again you attempt to tar all Muslims with the same brush.

In your example of two cars on the single lane road, it's hard to tell if you're making a clumsy analogy, or whether the other car contained Muslims. In either case, that's a situation I face daily, and invariably both cars slow down and move over. The only ones who are reluctant are rubbernecks from the city who don't want to get their cars dirty.

In the real outback, of course, the larger vehicle has right of way.

CJ... I dunno what drugs ur on man but none of those examples has been in the slightest 'refuted'... some might have 'whined' whinged etc..but refuted ? you cannot refute fact, but you can't resist putting your snout in the trough of lies yourself can ya :)

and where do you a-gain get this 'tarring all Muslims with the same brush' bit ?

TOPIC.. kinda.

One reason Lebanese Muslims feel 'victimized' is that ethnic tags are used in reporting of crime. Here is one example..

"The attacker was described as being Caucasian or European in appearance and aged between 25 and 30."

Oh WAIT... this perpetrator is 'white'... must be a misprint, shouldn't it read 'of middle eastern appearance'.. after all..thats the way ALL crime is reported isn't it?

Nothing like a good dose of reality to clear the victimization air.

Paul.L.
Disingenuous? I don't believe so.
The fact remains that the number of incidents shows how active certain groups are. If you care to examine some of the details of the information in that site, you'll also see that many groups have small numbers of members, some with few incidents, some inactive for some time.

Just because the Middle Eastern terrorism is constantly in the news doesn't mean that it's the only terrorism happening in the world and it puts paid to that myth that "all terrorists are Muslims".

As for the Communism reference, we see the same sorts of arguments, allegations and lies today that I used to hear back in the sixties.

Here's a nice photo of Reagan meeting with the Taliban in the Whitehouse -
http://politicalinquirer.com/2007/12/31/ronald-reagan-meeting-with-talibanal-qaedamujahideen/.

Here's another reference with some context -
http://peakenergy.blogspot.com/2008/01/charlie-wilsons-war-genesis-of-taliban.html

Here's some comments from 1997 about funding and the notion that the US knew what is was doing in Afghanistan-
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/51/115.html

Here's something more recent from a Republican Presidential candidate -
http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2001/tst110501.htm

Here's something about their attitude to the Taliban regarding that oil pipeline that was one of the real reasons for the invasion. (Our very own Sydney Morning Herald reported Colin Powell's announcement that they were planning to invade Afghanistan - BEFORE 911 even happened.)
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/oil.html

I also recommend you check out what was said by Robert Pape Jr.about the true nature of suicide bombers and their relationship with religion.

Meanwhile, I hope you're having an enjoyable Easter. (Really!)

Rache

Thanks for your response.

I don’t think anyone ever said that the only terrorism happening in the world today is the Islamic terrorism. As you have said, most people are aware of the Tamil Tigers, the ETA (Basques) the FARC.

The difference with Islamic terrorism is that it is global, pan-national, and dedicated to the installation of a religious-based political system everywhere in the world.

The three terrorist movements other than Islam mentioned above, are very specific in their aims and are only concerned with one small region of the world.

I don’t think the Reagan link proved much at all. (in fact the two responses really negate the point you are trying to make)

In “realpolitik” it is necessary to sometimes use other political movements to achieve one’s own goals.
The point is “what are the goals”?

You could say that Bin Laden himself was a “tool” of the CIA based on what was said in the articles you refer to. Nowadays of course he would deny that and say that he was only using the CIA for his own purposes.

People can be duplicitous and change their minds easily-ultimately we all act in our own interests.

Is it wrong of the US to try to ensure its (and our, by the way) access to energy? The US is not “stealing” the oil, it is paying for it.

The mantra that “everything the US does is wrong” is equally as simple minded as saying “all Muslims are Islamic terrorists”.

What worries me is that Muslims do not seem to have very effective measures in place to limit the power and influence of their extremists.