SJF,

Unpaid work is quite subjective. I don't consider cooking as work, but my wife does. I notice you're not too concerned about yard work being included?

Why have you decided the statisticians are sexist when they have stated their reasons based on data reliability?

'paid work done in the home was given the value it deserves '

Not sure if you mean unpaid? If so how do you propose it is given value?
Obviously you value it, I value it , and I have argued society values it, so I can only assume you want it assigned a monetary value?

Are you suggesting people be renumerated for cooking for themselves washing their own clothes and keeping their environment clean? If so how would you be sure their work was being done? Where would the money come from to pay them?

“I don't feel the need to convince you…”
Cool. But I don’t think I was out of line to ask you to back up your assertion with a little proof.

“Perhaps it's just as invasive a myth as Billie's quotation of the author "Women who speak out for equal rights...etc”
Sure. I don't dispute it cuts both ways.

“I'd love to see how many people qualify as Misandrist.”
So would I, but I suspect it would be the same as how many men are really misogynists — i.e. very, very few. I believe the vast, vast majority people do realise that the inner life of the opposite sex is just as complex as theirs. I have only encountered one misogynist in my life. I can’t think of any misandrists.

One thing I do take exception to, though, is picking on Homer Simpson. I think you’re *dead* wrong about Homer. He is one of the most enduring and adored fictional characters ever created. He works so well as a man because he’s *not* a worthy feminist parody of man, he is the creation of a big fat genius man — actually, a couple, if you give James L Brooks his due. Sure, Homer is a dumbass, but that does not mean people who enjoy the Simpsons think all men are dumbasses. The Simpsons is iconoclastic and irreverent — to hold it up against the values of the workaday world simply restricts its inventiveness and comedy. What to you want here — a smart Homor, a better representative of the male population? You actually want *cartoons* to become politically correct? What’s your goal?

If your goal is to sanatise representations of gender, then I am not sympathetic to this line of reasoning whether it comes from males or females.

SJF “The most recent estimate of the value of unpaid work in Australia was $261 billion in 1997 - approximately half of the total gross domestic product (GDP).’”

I love comments like this

Has anyone noticed, the hourly rate quoted for unpaid work is based on some mythical equivalent standard expected for “paid work”?

Doubtless, if those who do “unpaid work” were to try and negotiate for an actual hourly rate of pay, the like of which they quote, they would find themselves with a lot of spare time on their hands.

"Work" is worth what one can get someone else to pay for it, not how much one perceives ones own time is worth.

SJF, I have already posted where what is classified as unpaid work isn't unpaid at all.

see; JamesH, Sunday, 9 March 2008 1:52:33 AM

SJF you seem to be obsessed with the idea that so-called unpaid is not valued by society, I put it to you that so-called domestic chores are what keeps us healthy and fit to partake in paid employment and leisure.

For example if people did not clean their houses all sorts of illnesses would result in living in unsanitary conditions. So in reality it is domestic chores that enables us to work and play and so-called paid labour enables us to do domestic chores and play. By staying well, we stay out hospital, our life expectancy increases, our productivity increases. etc etc.

For example I wash my clothes so that I have clean clothes for work. The working wage enables me to be able to afford to buy clothes.

As too Warren Farrell, find most of his books difficult to read, however they are much easier on the brain than some of the convoluted and distort text in some of the feminist texts I have read. I struggled through them and at times had to find some could translate some of the phrases for me or explain the reasoning behind their arguments.

One of the reasons I have read feminist texts is to try and gain a picture of what is going on. The same reason that I have read Farrell, Thomas, Melanie Phillips,etc. I do not always agree with what authors write, however I do sometimes consider the concepts that they present as being interesting and then that makes me investigate their concept more deeply before I make a judgement on its validity.

There are two books on Misandry "Spreading Misandry and Legalising Misandry" so not only is there a problem with how women are portrayed there is also a problem with how men are portrayed.

So SJF if you were really interested in equality I believe then you would be prepared to read these texts, even if they didn't match you own views/dogma.

C.J Morgan,
I’ll name some of the “ists” if you like.

Marxists, Communists, Fascists, National Socialists, Maoists and so on.

They all told people that they believed in equality, but rarely did they mention democracy.

Once in power, their “equality” quickly became “more equal than equal”, and last century over 100 million people died because of it. Those people normally had their rights systematically taken from them, and then died in concentration camps, torture chambers and killing fields.

Of course feminists have learnt an enormous amount from this inglorious part of human history, and that is why so many feminists now go into schools on International Women’s Day, and tell girls that there needs to be more democracy, and not more people who call themselves an “ist”.

And that is why feminists such as yourself are so non-abusive.

*Ethics is now being taught in MBA's and other courses. Let's hope those who do these courses take this with them into the outside world. This would make a level playing field for really competent men and women.*

Danielle, that is all very nice and sweet, but especially when it
comes to international business, the law of the jungle will continue
to apply. Those who are naive and get sucked in, won't survive.

The Chinese treat business strategy a bit like warfare. They apply
their "fair game" theories and you sink or swim. Unless you can outthink them,
you will stand there naked, no matter what the business
schools teach.

An aquaintance of mine, ( an Aussie ), signed a contract with
a SE Asian company, where in the end, commodity prices moved his
way. He waved his bit of paper around, thinking it would mean
something. Ha! He learnt the hard way. No wonder that so many
Aussie companies who go to SE Asia, walk away in their underpants.

Its law of the jungle out there, that is the reality.

As to those commenting about the value of housework, it seems to
me that in divorce cases, housework is usually worth as much
as hubby earns, so they get half or similar. Clearly society
has put a value on it and in many cases, its very high.

Somebody worked out that Heather Mills was paid 36'000$ a day
for washing Paul's jocks etc. Not a bad income, as even as
a high class hooker, she could not have earnt that kind of money,
all tax free I presume.