Just a little afterthought.

The 'heap big' Sheikh of Lakemba mosque.. who was the darling of the Lebanese Muslim community.. apparently is a bigamist...having FOUR wives and LOTS of children.

My source ? :) (CJ.. are you drooling yet for another chance to stick in another pin into your Boaz effigy in that dark room ? :)

My source...is.......... HILALY himself.

http://www.abc.net.au/religion/stories/s1058934.htm

"When the Koran talks about one of these people in the old times, he refers to him as a “man” and not a “male”. Some think that manhood means making children. But I tell you, and I have four wives and plenty of children, that this is not true. Don’t think that the true meaning of manhood is restricted to having children."

*ouch*... I felt that one CJ..you must move your computer to another room mate, make sure there is some natural light too k

So... given the support of the Lebanese Muslim community...and of Mr "Friendly Moderation" Kaysar Trad.... it appears that the Muslim community contains a large number of people who hold to values (by supporting Hilali) which are illegal in Australia and abhorrent to most women. No wonder their offspring have issues of social adjustment.

Lebanese Maronites and Orthodox.. Monogamous.. no problemo.

BOAZ_David,

You are right. I should not have used "racism". I sloppily used it as a shorthand for intolerance and unwillingness to understand differences in race, religion, nationality, colour, dress codes, etc. That is, anything that is NOT LIKE US!

But I repeat, there is a bigger picture that should not be ignored. If I enter the house of my neighbour, kill him, rape and kill his wife, steal his valuables and then set fire to his house, and then the next day some of his friends or relations or religious brothers come and bomb my house, of course they are acting unlawfully and unacceptably and the police should deal with them. But to fail to bring into the equation my actions is either ignorance of the facts or sheer hypocrisy.

I cannot comment on whether region should be part of whether religion should taken into account in regard to the issue of becoming well adjusted contributors to mainstream society, except to give the Christian point view: viz NO. It is totally against Christian teaching to require conformity in religion (despite some examples in history that we can think of to the contrary).

I assume everyone thinks their values are superior to those of others in all matters of human culture. If they did not surely they would not believe in them. The problem is if they try and force those ideas on others. If you claim that is indeed the problem, see paragraph two above.

...john

“The key now is to find ways of using these [new] voices proactively instead of defensively and reactively”

At a glance, admitting that the Saudi Government has bank-rolled political Islam to build mosques and schools in this country, is a bold move. However, going on to label them as “spreading conservatism”, rather than “radicalism”, sounds a little tired.

Phillip: The precondition for allowing Saudi funding of the launching bases of the wahhabis here in Australia should be for churches to be built on Saudi soil. But this hasn’t happened, and it is not going to happen. The West do not have a legitimate right to call for changes in Saudi internal affairs

The problem gets right back to the points raised by coach – Islam is theocratic, we cannot suppress Muslim politics without suppressing their faith, we are in a great bind if we continue to label “Islam” as a religion. Kactuz: you're right, the label “political” is redundant.

It is “political Islamists (who) want Muslims to feel victimized”…. so does this mean that hiijab-wearing women who claim that they get spat on when they do their shopping are lying?

On Dr Tanya Dreher: Her piece of scholarship on community and media reaction immediately following 9/11 shows a very ugly side of Australian society, Muslim women being abused, terrified of going out onto the streets, concerned for the safety of their children. Thankfully, we have laws to protect anyone so targeted.
Putting women so visibly on the frontline, in a time when emotions are running amok must be the work of the “political Islamists” too.

The Bible shows us how to live, and it is just as appropriate now as for first century Christians:

‘Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone”. Romans 12:17-18

Saeed: your response to opinions expressed here was not proactive. It was disappointingly defensive and reactive. By your own definition, you have nothing to contribute here.

BOAZ_David, you seem quite alarmed about statements and behaviours of people who subsribe to the Islamic faith.

I am not alarmed. I am not afraid, I do not worry and I am not scared or threatened by anyone (especially a person who spends a good portion of their waking day in prayer).

Now why is this? Why are you alarmed and I am not? What's the difference between a person is persistantly worried and some who is never worried? What do you call someone who sees threats everywhere? Insecure? Why is it that I can sit back and comfortably accommodate people who do not share my religious beliefs (and I [hope I] don't have any) without it causing me any distress?

Wouldn't you like to know what's it's like to feel safe and secure for once BOAZ_David?

I am sick and tired of Islam, Hijabs, Habibs, Mosques in this country,
Jihads, all the abs..How far did u want us to bend over again mate?
Why did u all come to this country in the first place? Why didn't you all go to Malaysia? or Brunei? they'd welcome you all with open
Hijabs!...after all there are 350million muslims just to our north, I will gladly help anyone of you pack. If you think that Australians are going to stand by and become like England, Think Again, when push comes to shove, the Aussie Spirit will ignite like a bunger on cracker nite mate; Cronulla will seem like a sunday school picnic, and remember after all you are only 1% of the population. Have a look at the other 1% (the indigenous) that caused problems. Savvy -

Hi there Strayan... believe it or not.. I totally appreciate that response..and the questions raised.

I'll do my best to answer them..

Let me begin by picking up on one point.

You say "I am not alarmed. I am not afraid, I do not worry and I am not scared or threatened by anyone (especially a person who spends a good portion of their waking day in prayer)."

Fair point. I kind of get the feeling that you might be hinting I'm
-Obsessed :)
-Deluded
-Insecure.. (you mention this one)

Well actually its like a sledge hammer to a thumb tack :) but no problem.

My problem is this.. 'what is the nature' of the God to whom they are praying..and what are the likely values that will be strengthened through such prayer?

You see.. if I spend a lot of time praying...to Lucifer..Satan.. well..you can fill in the gaps there.... right ?

Bottom line...the way 'PRAYER' effects is, depends 100% on the 'nature' of the god/Deity we pray to... that's the key point... 'aggressive/violent/militant' deity.. aggressive/violent/militant followers.

a) If the Deity you are praying to has told you clearly and unmistakably to 'defend' him or his name or his community from attacks of a verbal, or physical kind..
b) The community you are a part of based on worship of this deity is considered homogenous..'one' body...
c) Somewhere in the world.. members of that body are being persecuted

Then...your prayer life will consist of "Oh Deity..strengthen me and help me to fight those attacking us"

That support might be of a material,financial or physical kind.

If there is any flaw in my common sense reasoning here, please point it out.....point by point :)