Part-2

Women should not be pressured in having an abortion because they perceive this is what society demands. They should be comfortable to know they can enjoy pregnancy and the birth of a child! Regretfully too much talk about women having their right to abort has caused many to do so against their free will because of the pressure upon them that they can have an abortion (forged upon them that is)!
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Women who try to dictate other women that they can have an abortion because it is “their body” do not understand that many who eventually do so end up with post natal depression contemplating suicide, etc, because they grieve for the lost life! Many made clear they never realised the consequences of having an abortion and were talked into it by other women.
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On 60 minutes program a woman made known that she contemplated suicide with her small child in the car. I had many men seeking my assistance contemplating the same. So argue it was nonsense of my business that they could do with their body as they desired as after all it is “their body”, well being it “their body” or not I never stood by to let them proceed with it neither to kill any of their children.
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You may hold I interfere with the right of others to decide with “their body” what to do but then again I am darn proud of it I have done so for decades, and saved in the process many others with it also!
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Whatever anyone criticise me about I know that many persons are alive today because I cared about the importance of life of others, including unborn babies.
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When a woman gives me the understanding that they look forwards of having a baby but contemplate suicide because other women are arguing it is her body and she can and should have an abortion, then that just underlines that those feminist are wrecking irresponsibly the lives of the very women they argue to protect.

shockadelic-

As in the gun control thread, you seem to have trouble staying on topic, instead preferring to attack the poster and wandering off on to hostile tangents.
That's fine, I have no issues clarifying what you see as inconsistent, though I do wish you'd do a better job of keeping to the topic at hand - we're not discussing guns here.

But just to make it clear - I'm opposed to guns because they are all too often used to kill people.
At the end of the day, as I repeatedly pointed out in the gun thread, regardless of what statistics you pull out, the fact of the matter is, gun deaths per capita are higher in the US than here.
That's it. That's the end game. That's why I'm opposed. It's really not all that hard to grasp.
I'm in favour of women's choice, because I see a foetus as just that - not some cuddly little baby being snuffed out, as pro-lifers like to claim.
From a practical standpoint, I dislike the idea of women being told they don't have control over their bodies and that they're being forced to give birth.
From an even more practical standpoint, if you were genuinely out to reduce abortions, you wouldn't be advocating zero tolerance policies.
You'll find that the rates of abortion in countries where it's legal, though coupled with effective sex education programs, are far lower.

It's a similar issue to the chastity craze that's sweeping the US bible belt - the STD stats and rates of pregnancy are higher because most teenagers give in, but because of their pledge they feel like they can't carry condoms.
Like many half-arsed zero tolerance policies, this one only exacerbates the situation.

However, by all means launch into your next tangent, conspiracy theory or hostile outburst. By comparison, it makes the rational arguments that much clearer.

Gerritt

“unborn children.”

Is an oxymoron,

“Regretfully too much talk about women having their right to abort has caused many to do so against their free will because of the pressure upon them that they can have an abortion (forced upon them that is)!”

Please supply statistics which support that statement.

And I do not mean just the one on 60 minutes (a TV tabloid which is not a reliable source of anything).

I would further speculate, the numbers of women being hoodwinked, emotionally blackmailed ("God will send yhou to hell" sort of rubbish) and lied to by rapacious pro-life zealots, into going against their own determinations, is signifcantly higher.

“Women who try to dictate other women that they can have an abortion because it is “their body””

And prolife advocates actively dictate to women not to have abortions and LIE about whose body it is.

“contemplate suicide because other women are arguing it is her body and she can and should have an abortion,”

Bunkum. The women who have, throughout history, committed and still commit suicide are the ones denied abortions and left with the dilemma of being shamed, abandoned and treated as a pariah, often by their own families.

In recent history, women were forced, by their families to endure pregnancy against their will by being sent to a catholic hospice in a distant town, once they started to “show” their condition.

The child, when delivered, was taken up (often by the church to become another slave of the Pope). The child then treated as a second class citizen and reminded of their illegitimacy for the rest of their life. Their estranged mother, if the scandal ever became known, similarly marked as a “fallen woman” and demonized by the religious autocracy.

Such manipulative corruption (makes me want to vomit) is what has driven women to suicide, not being respected and given the right to choose for themselves whether to abort or not.

Your entire line of argument is fatally flawed, supported by innuendo, more than fact and stained with paternalism.

Col Rouge: "excreta", "bowel movement"?

The nature of monkey *is* irrepressible!

Throwing pooh.
Yabby would be so proud.

First I was fascist, now I'm faeces.
What next, Col?
An incestuous cannibalistic necrophile?

Roll on the floor laughing all you like, Yabby.

Don't you think if there were a conspiracy, that's *exactly* what they'd want:
Denial.

"Deidre, come look! That silly Yabby man is now denying women could ever envision such a scheme!"
"Oh, Judith, men are *so* dumb! I can't wait till they're all dead!
A man actually dismissing the idea women would want to exterminate them! HA! HA! HA!"

I suppose Lee Harvey Oswald was a "lone" gunman with a magic bullet too.

"Planet Reality"

So now, your personal reality (rational materialist) represents the entire planet!

I think a part of you is quite *afraid* that you don't really know what's real or true at all.
That's why you cling so tenaciously to "principles".
They comfort you against the chaotic, possibly meaningless universe.

Next time you're at the newsagent, pick up a copy of "Fortean Times".
Your "rational" world will crumble before your eyes.

Did you forget about the chicken and the egg, because I haven't.
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/egifs/egghatching.GIF

Take a look and let me know *exactly when* the egg becomes a chicken.

TurnRightThenLeft: The fact you haven't read my posts is quite clear from your reference to "zero tolerance".
But just feel free to chip in with your presumptions (everybody else does!).

I don't think it "off-topic" to point out your hypocrisy.

I find your participation at this juncture quite suspicious.
It's called "damage control".

If somebody publishes suggestions regarding a *real* conspiracy, a damage control agent is *quickly* dispatched to attempt to discredit them.

1. I post the "conspiracy" idea.

2. Less than *18 minutes* later, TurnRightThenLeft, who has *never once* posted in this thread before, weighs in with talk of "hostile outbursts" and "zero tolerance".

3. TurnRightThenLeft is pro-gun control. Wouldn't want those pissed off men to own guns, now would you, Agent 746?

Before it was a hypothetical suggestion.
Now I'm worried I might actually be right!

"Don't you think if there were a conspiracy, that's *exactly* what they'd want:"

More conspiracy Shocka. You just can't help yourself.
Perhaps thats how your brain is wired, fair enough.

"A man actually dismissing the idea women would want to exterminate them! HA! HA! HA!""

So why do most women crave to be in relationships with men? Have
you ever thought of turning to nature to understand the world?

"So now, your personal reality (rational materialist) represents the entire planet!"

Well granted, there are a few who are a little nuts, but thats natural
too.

"Did you forget about the chicken and the egg, because I haven't.
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/egifs/egghatching.GIF"

Go back and look at the question I originally asked you. You can
answer it yourself. If not, crack the egg open and see what comes
out. If its a yoke, then its a yoke. If its a chicken, then
its a chicken. If its something inbetween, then its exaclty that.
All quite simple really.

Shocka, you perhaps missed Darwin's Origin
of Species, you were too busy with the JWs. Go and read it, the
world might make more sense to you then your conspiracy theories.

Shocka,
fact is that sex-selective abortions target girl foetuses almost exclusively in (patriarchal) developing countries.
I haven’t heard of any evidence that male fetuses are being targeted in higher numbers than female fetuses in Australia or anywhere else.

I’d hate to live in a world without men; I'm quite happy to live in a world with roughly equal numbers of men and women...as long as they don’t walk around carrying firearms and as long as the ones who obviously need it don't forget to take their medication *poke, poke*.
Anyway, nature usually gets the male-female balance right.

TRTL
Yes, countries with the most liberal abortion laws happen to have the lowest abortion rates. This thread has become quite long but somewhere we discussed that as a result of excellent sex-education and free contraception, Holland has an abortion rate of only 5 per 1000; compare that to countries that advocate celibacy such as USA and the difference is astonishing.

Gerrit,
I agree that abortion should not be used as an alternative to contraception, but to say that women who have sex must carry the risk of giving birth sounds, again, oppressive and harsh!

I’d rather advocate good sex-ed and hand-out free contraception than lecture women that sex involves the risk of being forced to give birth!

Not only do accidents happen (and contraception is not 100% reliable), but we discussed many pages ago that people also are not always 100% responsible and do make mistakes. If we didn’t, there would not be any car crashes, either.

People are not robots, they have to deal with emotions, desires, their sex hormones, etc.
I’ll also reiterate that especially teenagers’ brains are not developed enough to accurately anticipate risks. Remember?
To ‘punish’ a 16 or 17 year old girl for having sex by forcing her to give birth which will affect her life is barbaric.

The anti-choice brigade is all about controlling people’s (especially women’s) sexual behaviour- it’s not so much about saving embryos or they would loudly promote the most effective methods to prevent unwanted pregnancies: sex education and contraception.