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The Forum > Article Comments > Keeping Australia safe by an improper exercise of power? > Comments

Keeping Australia safe by an improper exercise of power? : Comments

By Surya Deva, published 27/7/2007

It is time the Australian Government showed some character in protecting the human rights of its citizens and non-citizens living in Australia legally.

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mickijo, you can refer to Bali and the drug smuggler cases all you want, but unless you tell me WHY you refer to them, I won't know how to respond. Civil liberty groups deal with civil liberty issues. Tell me what the civil liberty issues are in these cases, what you wanted the civil liberties groups to say, and then I can respond.

On hypocrisy, I don't care much if you can't spell the word, but you should probably look up what it means.
Posted by bushbasher, Wednesday, 1 August 2007 5:40:38 PM
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I would be surprised if civil libertarians criticised private citizens, I would think by definition a civil libertarian is someone who is interested in protecting individuals from the power of the state and is most likely to be a critic of any perceived or actual abuse of state power.
Posted by westernred, Wednesday, 1 August 2007 5:55:07 PM
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mickijo

You say 'the civil Libertarians are extremely selective in choosing whom they may stand up for...Otherwise why were you not up on your hind legs howling when Sheik Hilali and his type were insulting, offending and encouraging rape? Why are you not in full cry after those who abuse Aboriginal women and children in the worst ways? Not a whisper from you when the innocent were bombed twice in Bali?'

How would you know what protests I and others you label as "civil libertarians" make or what actions we took on those (or any other) occasions? You are just so spectacularly wrong. But actual evidence is if no interest to you, obviously.

bushbasher puts it well when he says: 'Most civil rights groups are extremely non-selective in whom they defend. They are defending principles, not people. And your reference to the Bali bombings makes absolutely no sense. I know no one who wasn't horrified by those bombings. I know no one who didn't want to see the perpetrators punished, and sincerely wanted to consider ways to stop it happening again. So what, exactly, is your point?'

You then weakly reply: 'The point is Bushbasher that in the cases I mentioned plus the drug smuggler cases ,civil libertarians are conspicuous by their silence,their absence.
But get a chance to demonise [your word] the Howard government, you are way up there and singing loudly. It is very obvious and we see it for the hypocracy it is.'

Do you know the meaning of 'civil liberties' or is it just another phrase you heard somewhere and thought to throw it in - like the 'left wing socialism' that you think dominates our schools?

I think bushbasher is right - go and look up the meaning of hypocrisy. And while you're at it see if you can find out what civil liberties are (oh, and you might as well do left wing socialism as well - it might be different from civil libertarianism).
Posted by FrankGol, Wednesday, 1 August 2007 6:13:20 PM
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It is interesting to see how well the Labor party has avoided the wedge on this issue.

We see people attacking civil libertarians and Howard haters, but not the intended victims.

Kevin Andrews keeps blowing the dog whistle, but only digs himself into a bigger hole.

Costello must be fuming, this was meant to be his week with the APEC finance ministers meeting.

How come everything Kevin Andrews touches turns to brown smelly stuff.
Posted by ruawake, Wednesday, 1 August 2007 6:46:39 PM
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aqvarivs sees no harm in what this government is doing , well why does this government need to enter private residence without a warrant, you obviously do not think that having checks and balances to keep the criminals in high office on a path that would keep an eye on them. No I don't agree with such a naive belief that what the issuing of thinly veiled ID cards linked to data bases with biometric information starting with your photo but now they will have power to take your DNA place it on that same database. Then we are going to allow them to use mobile to triangulate you exact position again without a warrant; I am aware that ASIO has carried these actions for years but to me that is an abuse of office.
Before the belly aching starts that it isn't an ID card and what's the matter with ID cards they will keep us safe from terrorsits someone needs to explain how it will stop anyone. The 911 hijackers flew under their own IDs, please explain how I am really wanting to hear this.

The greatest concern to me is detention without any appeal, I know a lot of naive people don't see anything wrong here but I do.
You speak about helping the government with their enquiries, well to that there is no problem as long as they are following rules but at present they make the rules up along the way and if someone is getting away they change the rules yet again, IE go for the VISA. If Keelty has proof then the DPP would have acted but the proof is in the pudding they had nothing.
Then back to checks and balances, you think the leaders we have now are to be trusted look at the lies to enter the war in IRAQ, where are the WMD's please don't blame the intellegence agencies they couldn't lie straight in bed.

No I don't trust Howard they lied and continue to lie, whatever happened to statesmen ? You want me to trust this lot.
Posted by nickmihaleff, Wednesday, 1 August 2007 8:03:59 PM
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nickmihaleff, the point is that you have this governmental attitude thanks to people like bushbasher who wanted governmental expansion into every facet of life. Unfettered socialism to salve their guilty conscience for being white, successful and in power. I don't like it. Never did. Hundreds of thousands don't like it but, it is part of the institutionalisation of government into the affairs of society brought about by the Labour and Liberal Parties thanks to Unionist, "government knows best" talkers and citizens wanting government to take responsibility for their lives rather than themselves manage that burden. To blame Howard for what has become entrenched in the public and inter-government psyche since the 1960's isn't just stupid. It's partisan politics at it's worst coming from the left for the result of their political design. Now that they have been successful in ensuring massive government it's all Howard's fault and a right-wing conspiracy to remove our civil liberties. Well son you might buy that crap but our civil liberties were given up whole heartedly by the socialist. It's the keystone in socialism. The Right, if such a thing exist in Australia, have been arguing for smaller government and less intrusion from day one. Where were these so called civil libertarians when government went unionised, city employees went unionised, police went unionised, hospitals went unionised, teachers went unionised. Etc.,etc. You can not justly play the blame game unless your willing to accept your responsibility in some small part for the accumulated events of yesterday. The only time anything comes out of the blue, is if you haven't been paying attention when you left it up to someone else to manage your affairs.
Posted by aqvarivs, Thursday, 2 August 2007 12:14:26 AM
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