My greatest concern in this whole, sorry affair is the total silence of the Labor party. Many raised their voice in the defence of Dr Haneef's (and our) rights, but nothing was heard from the Labour party. Only the Greens and Democrats had the guts to openly protest.

I am concerned, because it means that voting Labour at the next elections is unlikely to bring about any change in that area. And since we are condemned to be governed by 2 parties only, voting Greens or Democrats isn't going to help either.

Sad, really.

Leigh,
I'm neither a liar or a reader of your posts. I learned early in my involement in this place that you contributed absolutely nothing to rational debate, as such anything you write is drivel.

Which is why I give others the advice I use and don't be bothered reading your tripe.

Mickijo, if you are looking for an organisation which supports rights and goes beyond civil liberties, you might join Amnesty International Australia. It’s most recent ‘Human Rights Defender’ calls for its members to write letters to Laos concerning the Hmong, to Canada concerning Anishinaabe, to Vietnam concerning Bui Thi Kim Thanh, to Iran concerning Sayed Hossein Kazemeyni, to the Congo concerning Pascal Kabungulu Kibemi, to Azerbaijan concerning Dimitri Pavlov and his fellows, and has articles on Sri Lanka, Egypt and Dafur.

If you are really concerned, you could join its urgent action network, and add your support to those who try and save the lives of people who are threatened. Recent campaigns have included supporting people in Iran, Mexico, Guatemala, the United States, China, Columbia, Eritrea, Indonesia, the Bahamas, Haiti, Nepal, Pakistan, Russia, Venezuela, and the Yemen amongst others. It also has a long and distinguished record of organising world opposition to terrorist organisations.

Is that widespread enough for you? Australian civil liberties organisations may not struggle against injustice everywhere. That is not their function. But that is not so say that members do not.

Benjamin, I am sorry not to have replied to you before now. I used the just war principles as the start of my argument, on the assumption that they are well known and more or less common sense. But common sense can be and often is wrong; so let me start a defence of them, and thus perhaps to show you their relevance to the views that I was criticising—the notion that it is obvious that absolutely any attack on our liberties is permissible if it protects us from terrorism.

You make the first part of my case for me. Yes, it is not obvious that saving life is more important than protecting freedom. To your Iraq example, I would add the English Civil War, the Second World War, the rebellions of 1848, the French revolution (at least to start with) the Spanish Civil War and the risorgiamento. In each case many of the participants were prepared to lose their lives for freedom.

bushbasher, there is no attack upon your human rights. Your hyperventilating because Haneef is safely home in Pakistan after a 30 day investigation on the grounds of having terrorist connections and other non-disclosed information passed on by British Intelligence. Your not making any rational sense blathering away with your thumb pressing hard on the alarm button. Cam yerself laddie and pick up your communist manifesto. Y'know that always relaxes ya. Come on now. Deep breaths. let's chant it together. Mao, um-tiddy, Mao, Mao. There's a good fellow.

aqvarivs, what is the point of that abusive and presumptuous post? you don't want to address my arguments? fine. but, you know nothing about me. what can be more absurd than your trashing of some imaginary communist foe, a bushbasher which exists only in your mind?

i don't see what you're doing amounts to more than masturbation. it may be fun for you, but i doubt that anybody else really wants to watch.

i have better things to do. i won't bother you, or bother with you, further.

That would be best bushbasher if you can dish it but can't take it. Considering your first post to this thread was to pounce on my post calling it crap and made up while offering nothing to the conversation