Quote: That's why we need Muslim community leaders to speak out clearly against anyone spreading hatred.

Does that include the Quran and Mohammad himself?

So you see why this "speak out" or "condemn" concept by Islamic leaders is a waste of time. It is hypocrisy. It is basically like condemning concentration camps and saying that Hitler was a good person.

The Quran is filled with calls for hate and violence against non-Muslims. It gets worse... The traditions (the ahadith) of Islam's tell hundreds of stories of raids, plunder, murder, persecution, enslavement and rape by Mohammad and his men. Yet he is considered as great moral example. That explains that, I think.

Try and find a Muslim that wants to talk about these things. They are either in denial or dishonest. They want to pretend that these do not exist, or if they do, they have nothing to do with Islam Our PC and multiculturalist leaders don't want to talk about these things either, so not to hurt Muslim feelings.

This is why these things happen, again and again, time after time - and nothing changes. You cannot be for Mohammad and against terror.

Kactuz

Kaktuz,

Doesn't it occur to you that there might be two sides to the story?
If the 'version' you were fed is true why the Quran teachings are good?

I quote non-muslim impeccable philosophers and historians:

1. Lamartine, History of Turkey, 1854, vol-2, page 276-277:

“if greatness of purpose, smallness of means and astounding results are the three criteria of human genius, who could dare to compare any great man in modern history with Mohammed?...His forbearance in victory, his ambition, which was entirely devoted to one idea and in no manner striving for an empire; his endless prayers, his mystic conversations with God, his death and his triumph after death: all these attest not to an imposture but to a firm conviction which gave him the power to restore a dogma. This dogma was twofold, the unity of God and the immateriality of God; the former telling what God is, the latter telling what God is not…Philosopher, orator, apostle, legislator, warrior, conqueror of idea, restorer of national dogmas, of a cult without images; the founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire. That is Mohammed. As regards all standards by which human greatness maybe measured, we may well ask: is there any man greater than he?

2. Thomas Carlyle (1840), writes:
And then also Islam-that we must submit to God; that our whole strength lies in resigned submission to Him, whatsoever he does to us, the thing he sends to us, even if death and worse than death, shall be good, shall be best; we resign ourselves to God." Carlyle answers the question of Goethe and says "Yes, all of us that have any moral life, we all live so. This is yet the highest wisdom that heaven has revealed to our earth."
http://www.thomascarlyle.com/us/1776/0803250304/On_Heroes_Hero-Worship_and_the_Heroic_in_History

Its enough proof that the world’s most known peaceful religious practice is Sufi (Mystic) Islam followed by one fifth of the muslim world.

Peace as always,

SNEEKEPETE,

I don't think those are Benjamin's figures, they're one of the Muslim youth leaders, and although Mick Keelty has come out to say those figures are over the top,

You sound like you're shocked that even 10% of Muslims would be jihadists. Aren't you aware of the countless polls in the UK, some from leftist groups even - that all have a figure of about 55% for Muslims who think 7/7 was acceptable, and about 70% of which want Sharia in Britain, and the UK under Islamic rule?

Come on mate, we're dealing with a whole community of xenophobic bigots.

Your in denial.

It's interesting that no one called that Muslim youth leader an Islamophobe isn't it, given we all know that would have happened if it was a non-Muslim who said such a thing?

STRAYAN,

You're more worried about bikie gangs? That is insane, as even the police task forces and bikie experts say they make up no more than 30% of organised crime, with the other 70% being ethnic organised crime, i.e; Asian triads, Muslim thugs, etc.

You sound like those who think we have more of a problem with white supremacist groups that we do with ethnic gangs!

Again, even the experts, one of which I saw on a Current Affairs program once, Martin Something-Something (hyphenated surname, worked out of some University, and who devoted most of his time to this cause) admitted that there were less than 500 members of such white groups and they impact on our lives 0%.

That is, they don't bash non-whites, rob their stores, steal ATM's, have car-rebirthing rackets, and so on.

Sorry mate, you are way, way off track with this.

KACTUZ,

Your insightful. I couldn't have put it better myself. I often have arguments with people who say Islam is reformable, or we shouldn't say it is Islam - just a hijacking of it, to which I always respond:

'But that is like saying that one can be allowed to wear a nazi uniform, prey to hitler, but if they don't actually commit any violence themselves they should be accepted! that is insane!

It's always refreshing to hear one of insight on this forum, for there are so many people here who can't see past their ignorance of Islam, they think all religions are like Christianity.

We aren't even 1/1000 of where we need to be, most of us are so ignorant.

Don't such ppl wonder why 'moderates' only attack non-Muslims when they say things I do about Islam? Where is the protest to remove the old bigot from Melbourne, their new racist mufti?

Anyone? Anyone? And Muslims wonder why they cop stares in the street? If it even happens that is! because they hang out in packs, likely would get assaulted for it.

Oh, and anyone wondering about my name, as some leftist f.... have already on this site, with their (white warlock? white wizard? grand wizard perhaps? rubbish) I call myself this because we live in a time not unlike the witch hunting days in medieval times, where anyone who went against the established religious order (which is the 'left' today with their culural relativism garbage and multiculturalism - sorry, I will never accept FGM or apostasy or honour killings etc.) was branded a witch, or if male, a warlock.

I add the white in their because that is like a double crime, to be white is to be looked at as evil, can't work that one out given it was whites who stopped slavery, set up the great countries everyone wants to live in, and have the best values - built on the european enlightenment of course.

But that is why anyway.

A little off-topic, but still relevant to the discussion. I came across an article about "Islam and the Problem of Rationality."

The author, Poole, discusses the arbitrary nature of Islamic philosophy (Allah wills!) and how this irrationality has led to a rejection of science, free will and even ethics. He says:

Quote: "... Because there are no objective standards of good or evil, even with Allah, the only resort to maintain ethics is shari'a; and as-Sanusi makes clear, there is no role at all for rationality in ethics. Ibn Taymiyya (1263-1328), the favorite medieval theologian of Wahhabis and jihadists alike, contended that there was no role or ability for man to understand Allah; man's sole response was to obey shari'a, making any use of rational faculties irrelevant. This is why the reinstitution of shari'a is so critical to the current Islamist project - there are no other alternatives except a complete reconstruction of Islam itself.

... The reality is that none of these values - human rights, basic freedoms, rule of law, or democracy - actually exists anywhere in the Muslim world to the degree that they are practiced in or are recognizable to the West, nor are they identifiable in the 1,400 years of Islamic history."

End of quotes. As people here may have noticed, for years I have been calling attention to the contradictions between 1. what Muslims say about islam and 2. what they do and what their scriptures say.

On one hand we hear from Muslims that Islam means peace, that it is wonderful and that Mohammad was a 'mercy for all mankind'. In reality the Quran and hadiths are full of violence and hate, and Mohammad killed, murdered, enslaved, plundered, raped, etc...

What goes? To us in the West, this is nonsense, and irrational. To Muslims it is because it is and Allah says so and end of discussion and lets not talk about this or if you do we will have to kill you.

Read the whole thing:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2006/12/islam_and_the_problem_of_ratio.html

Kactuz

What is so worrying about posts like that of Kenny is that he appears not to "get it". Muslims have been welcomed into Australia (or Holland,Sweden,Spain,Britain etc etc etc), given sanctuary from the hellholes they were fleeing; been offerred free schooling and all the rest...and yet too many continue to show nothing but ingratitude. Too many continue to believe they are "better" than the infidels and to demonstrate this continuously through their actions. The "bridge" Kenny alludes to HAS been begun from our side,and it is now time for the bridge builders on the other side to get cracking.
When I read of a fundamentalist Christian attacking an abortion clinic; bashing a gay toilet loiterer; burning some sinners house, I can imagine that somewhere in the Bible there would be some kind of "justification". However, despite being anti-abortion and anti-gay myself (not Homophobic please note; I don't fear them...I'm more Homoscornful) I would not applaud these actions, nor silently accept them, nor pretend that Paradise awaits any fool who decides that bashing, killing or whatever, is another way of Honouring God. Somehow I also suspect you would not find many Christian Clergy preaching the righteousness of such acts either. Contrast this to the long tolerated and inane mumblings of Sheik Hilally, the SUPREME Mufti, and delve into the utterances of his "more moderate" successor, to spot the difference.
So, that's it. The Muslim Community has had it's chance. It really is a case of "last call gentlemen. Time everyone. Time to go" Cheers.