Rhian - wat u said.

BD - so JC was only fooling around when he said "Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I build my church", huh? And how come the "message" of Christianity - as opposed to that of yet another breakaway Jewish sect - only got serious when popes were seen as political leaders?

An no, before you even start, I am not catholic. I just studied history. Out of more than one book.

RobbyH doesn't know what (s)he is talking about! Stick with what you know a little bit about.

RobbyH posted, “I say we need laws to prevent this constant stream of attempted conversions. We have a "do not call" line. What about a "Do not attempt conversion" line?”

RobbyH would be most at home in Malaysia. The IHT reported

Malaysian state stiffens penalties to stifle Muslim conversions

KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia: People who try to convert Muslims to other religions could face a whipping, a fine and longer prison terms in a state ruled by a conservative Islamic party in northeast Malaysia, an official said Wednesday.....

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/06/27/asia/AS-REL-Malaysia-Converting-Muslims.php

Like it or not robbyH is not far from right.
Far to much power s required by Christians and any religion, a separation from politics is the best for any country.
The thread however is well thought out.

No, Austrailian Muslims don't need a spiritual leader. That role is filled by their dear leader and prophet, Mohammad. He alone speaks for Islam. He is also the great moral example for all Muslims.

Let me give you all the bottom line on Islam. It is a religion of hate and violence. The Quran is a message full of anger and vile words against non-Muslims. Yes, it says some nice things, the at best, it is contradictory. At worst, it is bad, confused prose. Muslims don't want to talk about this but I would like one of them to explain why people who do "mischief" should be killed or mutulated?

The traditions are even worse. According to Islam,'s own writings (hadith), Mohammad murdered, tortured, enslaved, plundered, lied, raped and even beat his wife. Other than that he was a nice guy, a "mercy for mankind". Guess what, Muslims don't want to talk about these things, even if found in all traditions (Muslim, Ishaq, Bukhari, Abu Dawud, Tabari, Hisham, etc...). If anybody wants links to these facts, please request. Please!

That is why things never get better. That is why Muslims do what they say. That is why things are bad in Islamic societies.

So remember, when a Muslim says anything, He/she is a person that loves and respects a man that did many vile, evil things and doesn't care. Murder is OK if done by Mohammad. Rape is ok, if done by Mohammad. Etc. They even say "Praise be unto him" knowing these things. That is the bottom line.

The new mufti is like all Muslims. Murder and conquest is OK, if it is Islamic murder and rape. He will say and do as all Imams do. The murder of this pregnant lady will not bother him:
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/abudawud/038.sat.html#038.4348
dagger, belly, blood, child, praise be unto him.

Most of the Muslim posters here know these things, but don't care. Guess what that means? Figure it out, if you can. I don't know what is in Muslims' heart, but here it is not ignorance, so it must be denial or deception.

Kactuz

Good morning Kaktuz,

To understand Islam you need to look at how Muslims see it and practice it. Here is a good site : www.readingislam.com

Re the prophet of Islam, a Turkish thinker have a good biography on the prophet and his teachings.
http://www.fethullahgulen.org/

Peace,